Interesting Zito stat - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

flyer85 · 04-12-2007, 01:40 PM

The Giants are really going to live to regret this deal., if they don't already

from Stark's column

Quote:

Granted, it's a little early to pronounce judgment on Barry Zito's mind-warping seven-year, $126 million jackpot. But in Zito's first start, he got just six swings and misses in 86 pitches. In his second start, it was only seven swings and misses in 100 pitches.

On the Giants

Quote:

Problem No. 1: Age
By the end of this month, there won't be one every-day player in this lineup under 32, and their two best players (Barry Bonds and Omar Vizquel) will be in their 40s. "Just an aging, station-to-station ball club," said one scout.

Problem No. 2: Offense
Not once in the 50 seasons since the Giants moved to San Francisco have they scored fewer runs than the 20 they've managed in their first nine games. How about these numbers, through Wednesday: Team batting average .232. Team on-base percentage .289. Team slugging percentage .307. Versus left-handed pitchers: .130/.259/.174. Runners in scoring position: .214 average, with no extra-base hits. Late and close: .179 average, with one RBI.

Interesting to note the contrast of the Giants and the Snakes. The Snakes have went with almost all young guys and the start they are off to a flying start. The Reds missed what may be their two best young players in Quentin and Young.

RedsManRick · 04-12-2007, 01:49 PM

A fastball that doesn't fool anybody and a great curve that he can't locate consistently. He fooled a lot of people the first few years in the league and can still be quite effective when he has his curve working. However, the Giants gave him ace money to be a decent #2/3 starter for the next 7 years.

Barry Zito is Ted Lilly with a better home ball park and easier division the last 3 years. Not a bad pitcher at all, but not the guy I'd build my staff around through 2015.

Caveat Emperor · 04-12-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyer85

The Snakes have went with almost all young guys and the start they are off to a flying start. The Reds missed what may be their two best young players in Quentin and Young.

Owings is pretty damn good too -- was their top-rated pitching prospect last season, I believe. He can swing the bat a bit too; he'd be a better pinch-hitting option than both Moeller and Castro if he played for the Reds.

And, I'm not just saying this as a Tulane grad.

HotCorner · 04-12-2007, 01:52 PM

No wonder Aurilla went back to SF. He wanted to be young again.

membengal · 04-13-2007, 10:42 AM

Gil Meche is missing a LOT more bats than Barry Zito. And at a lesser cost. Perhaps that contract will end up looking less silly for KC as the season and years unfold...

TC81190 · 04-13-2007, 10:59 AM

And he doesn't break 90 with his "heater."

DTCromer · 04-13-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

A fastball that doesn't fool anybody and a great curve that he can't locate consistently. He fooled a lot of people the first few years in the league and can still be quite effective when he has his curve working. However, the Giants gave him ace money to be a decent #2/3 starter for the next 7 years.

Barry Zito is Ted Lilly with a better home ball park and easier division the last 3 years. Not a bad pitcher at all, but not the guy I'd build my staff around through 2015.

Which is exactly why I have no problem with WK and the other owner in this town not overpaying for someone in FA. Everyone knows pitchers are expensive no matter how good or bad they are.

Quote:

But in Zito's first start, he got just six swings and misses in 86 pitches. In his second start, it was only seven swings and misses in 100 pitches.

I don't see the relevance on this. . .I mean I do, but it's not that big of a deal. I'd like to see Greg Maddux's numbers. I'm sure they're better but the guy pitches to contact. Big deal if there were 6 swings and misses. Zito is good, but not 125 million bones good. But the swing and misses has absolutely no bearing on whether I think the guy is good or not.

membengal · 04-13-2007, 11:46 AM

Greg Maddux in the day, in his prime, could get guys to swing and miss whenever he wanted to. Period. Missing bats is a VERY relevant part of the discussion about how good a pitcher someone is...

DTCromer · 04-13-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by membengal

Greg Maddux in the day, in his prime, could get guys to swing and miss whenever he wanted to. Period. Missing bats is a VERY relevant part of the discussion about how good a pitcher someone is...

Maddux has averaged .687 K's per inning for his career.
Zito has average .764 K's per inning in his career.

Maddux gave up an average of more hits/inning over his career than Zito, although Zito averages more HR's/game than Maddux over his career. . . . so you can look at the #'s any which way you want.

Although those numbers don't seem like a big difference, they really are.

Do I think Zito deserved his contract? Hell no, but he's still a damn good pitcher. He's struggled just about every April in his career and then went on to dominate the rest of the year. Someone even posted these numbers on here. I don't understand why so many people seem to dislike this guy on here.

jimbo · 04-13-2007, 01:44 PM

Remembering back to the years I had Zito on my fantasy teams, I remember him always getting off to slow starts. I think that contract was pretty ridiculous and he is nowhere near worth that money, but I'd bet that Zito ends up having a decent year.

Please note I said "decent," not a season worthy of that crazy contract he got.

bucksfan2 · 04-13-2007, 02:10 PM

Take away Zito's 2002 year and hes nothing more than ordinary. I think he may be a left handed Arroyo. Puts up innings and will have a decent ERA and win anywhere from 12-18 games. It was crazy for anyone to sign him to that amount of money. Dont get me wrong I would love Zito on my team, but not for that insane amount of money.

jojo · 04-13-2007, 02:20 PM

I'm on record as being on the side that wouldn't have signed Zito during the off-season (especially for what the Giants had to shell out).

However, here's a counter argument by a very smart guy just to balance things out and because, well it's interesting and useful.

DTCromer · 04-13-2007, 03:15 PM

I'd give you rep, but unfortunately I can't right now.

But that's a great find. I love articles like that.

jojo · 04-13-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTCromer

I'd give you rep, but unfortunately I can't right now.

But that's a great find. I love articles like that.

Apparently you're a Cubs or Cards fan....

DTCromer · 04-13-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojo

Apparently you're a Cubs or Cards fan....

Even worse: I'm a Reds fan.

04-12-2007, 01:52 PM	#4
HotCorner Big League Choo! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The 513 Posts: 2,160	Re: Interesting Zito stat No wonder Aurilla went back to SF. He wanted to be young again. __________________ YouTube - Randy Pausch Last Lecture: Achieving Your Childhood Dreams Baseball Stars Rocks!

04-13-2007, 10:42 AM	#5
membengal Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Baltimore Posts: 8,403	Re: Interesting Zito stat Gil Meche is missing a LOT more bats than Barry Zito. And at a lesser cost. Perhaps that contract will end up looking less silly for KC as the season and years unfold...

04-13-2007, 10:59 AM	#6
TC81190 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,072	Re: Interesting Zito stat And he doesn't break 90 with his "heater." __________________ I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.

04-13-2007, 11:46 AM	#8
membengal Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Baltimore Posts: 8,403	Re: Interesting Zito stat Greg Maddux in the day, in his prime, could get guys to swing and miss whenever he wanted to. Period. Missing bats is a VERY relevant part of the discussion about how good a pitcher someone is...

04-13-2007, 01:44 PM	#10
jimbo Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Troy, OH Posts: 2,545	Re: Interesting Zito stat Remembering back to the years I had Zito on my fantasy teams, I remember him always getting off to slow starts. I think that contract was pretty ridiculous and he is nowhere near worth that money, but I'd bet that Zito ends up having a decent year. Please note I said "decent," not a season worthy of that crazy contract he got.

04-12-2007, 01:49 PM	#2
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,987	Re: Interesting Zito stat A fastball that doesn't fool anybody and a great curve that he can't locate consistently. He fooled a lot of people the first few years in the league and can still be quite effective when he has his curve working. However, the Giants gave him ace money to be a decent #2/3 starter for the next 7 years. Barry Zito is Ted Lilly with a better home ball park and easier division the last 3 years. Not a bad pitcher at all, but not the guy I'd build my staff around through 2015. __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

04-13-2007, 02:10 PM	#11
bucksfan2 Waitin til next year Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 9,650	Re: Interesting Zito stat Take away Zito's 2002 year and hes nothing more than ordinary. I think he may be a left handed Arroyo. Puts up innings and will have a decent ERA and win anywhere from 12-18 games. It was crazy for anyone to sign him to that amount of money. Dont get me wrong I would love Zito on my team, but not for that insane amount of money.

04-13-2007, 02:20 PM	#12
jojo Five Tool Fool Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 16,695	Re: Interesting Zito stat I'm on record as being on the side that wouldn't have signed Zito during the off-season (especially for what the Giants had to shell out). However, here's a counter argument by a very smart guy just to balance things out and because, well it's interesting and useful. __________________ "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

04-13-2007, 03:15 PM	#13
DTCromer Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,325	Re: Interesting Zito stat I'd give you rep, but unfortunately I can't right now. But that's a great find. I love articles like that.

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