4/19/2007 Minor League Game update

[dougdirt]

Dayton loses its first game of the year, 15-4

[tbball10]

Originally Posted by Aronchis

It isn't I think Bruce isn't a good prospect, but he isn't the "super" "franchise" prospect that Maybin is. Hitters don't "learn" discipline either, they either have it nor not. Think Juan F in Dayton will "learn" plate discipline.

FWIW, Maybin with 2 more walks tonight, 13 vs. 4 for Bruce.

I think we already had this debate last year by a couple of posters. They are looking right.

i believe that as long as bruce's OPS remains solid (.966 after tonight), that it does not matter how often he walks. the bottom line is he is probably not swinging at bad pitches if he's hitting .339. he will walk more as pitchers learn to be more careful with him, but if he's seeing good pitches why not crush them like he's currently doing.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Aronchis

It isn't I think Bruce isn't a good prospect, but he isn't the "super" "franchise" prospect that Maybin is. Hitters don't "learn" discipline either, they either have it nor not. Think Juan F in Dayton will "learn" plate discipline.

FWIW, Maybin with 2 more walks tonight, 13 vs. 4 for Bruce.

I think we already had this debate last year by a couple of posters. They are looking right.

True or false - Jose Reyes improved his plate discipline as he matured as a player.

[JaxRed]

BTW, I'm sure we're going to be told why Gardner's start this season is not very good also.

[jmcclain19]

Janish keeping that OBP up around .400 all season is keeping things mighty interesting.

A SS with dazzling defense & a .400 OBP? I'm starting to come around on him just a bit.

[New Fever]

I know it is the first 10 games ,but Valakia is over 1.000 in OPS. Even if he has to move off short he still should hit enough for 2nd or 3rd. He is definitely one to watch. Maybe a good comparison for him would be Ian Kinsler.

[knuckler]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

True or false - Jose Reyes improved his plate discipline as he matured as a player.

While it is possible for a player to make incremental improvements, the Sammy Sosa model of suddenly "getting it" with plate discipline is the exception, not the rule. I'm pretty disappointed that Francisco doesn't have a walk yet this year, because it doesn't bode well for success at higher levels. Remember Habelito Hernandez?

[Aronchis]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

BTW, I'm sure we're going to be told why Gardner's start this season is not very good also.

Lets see a 25 year old pitcher pitching in Aball. Why do people still care about Gardner? What made his start so awesome? Think he can move to higher levels and do something similiarly? I am amazed how we overrate prospects around here.


The fact is, Bailey and Bruce have been outperformed by the Hughes's,Gallardo's and now Maybin for the last year. Maybe they just aren't that good. Maybe Bailey really is nothing more than a mythical 2 starter. Maybe Bruce is just a above average talent like Dunn(or what we project Votto to be). Maybe all they are is what they are. We all drool for the day we get a Pujols,Arod,Verlander,Beckett(who is bouncing back nicely this year FWIW). Maybe Reds baseball has been in such a talentless pit for over a decade now, we are so desperate for stardom, thus we will overrate what we can and will become messiahical in our own minds. Then leading to severe deflation when it doesn't happen.

The fact is, outside the Pirates,Royals,Devil Rays and Brewers(maybe not for much longer) the Reds are the bottom pits of baseball.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by knuckler

Remember Habelito Hernandez?

With 1,340 career at-bats and 40 career walks, he is amazing.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Aronchis

Lets see a 25 year old pitcher pitching in Aball. Why do people still care about Gardner? What made his start so awesome? Think he can move to higher levels and do something similiarly? I am amazed how we overrate prospects around here.

Because he pitched well at AA pre-injury. Can he be counted on at this point? no. But he can't be counted out either.

And Gardner was never overrated. before they got hurt, Gardner and Pauly were two prospects highly touted by EVERY publication. Injuries happen.

[OesterPoster]

Originally Posted by TRF

Because he pitched well at AA pre-injury. Can he be counted on at this point? no. But he can't be counted out either.

And Gardner was never overrated. before they got hurt, Gardner and Pauly were two prospects highly touted by EVERY publication. Injuries happen.

Maybe Gardner is a trading deadline pawn, just like Webb last year. Keep him at a lower level to build up his stats. If he doesn't figure into the Reds' long-term plans, then possibly he's easier to send somewhere else. Just a thought.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Aronchis

Lets see a 25 year old pitcher pitching in Aball. Why do people still care about Gardner? What made his start so awesome? Think he can move to higher levels and do something similiarly? I am amazed how we overrate prospects around here.


The fact is, Bailey and Bruce have been outperformed by the Hughes's,Gallardo's and now Maybin for the last year. Maybe they just aren't that good. Maybe Bailey really is nothing more than a mythical 2 starter. Maybe Bruce is just a above average talent like Dunn(or what we project Votto to be). Maybe all they are is what they are. We all drool for the day we get a Pujols,Arod,Verlander,Beckett(who is bouncing back nicely this year FWIW). Maybe Reds baseball has been in such a talentless pit for over a decade now, we are so desperate for stardom, thus we will overrate what we can and will become messiahical in our own minds. Then leading to severe deflation when it doesn't happen.

The fact is, outside the Pirates,Royals,Devil Rays and Brewers(maybe not for much longer) the Reds are the bottom pits of baseball.

And performance only means so much in the minor leagues too. For the most part, top prospects are y-o-u-n-g, which 99% of the time means they are incomplete players and have something to learn. That is why they are in the minor leagues....to learn. If they were ready, they would be playing in Cincinnati. I don't think anyone here overrated Bruce or Bailey.... look at their scouting reports.... look at their numbers.... they go hand in hand. I mean sure I guess you can say we overrated Bruce and Bailey if scouts and the likes thought otherwise, but last I checked Jay Bruce was the best prospect listed by Baseball America in the MWL, which included Maybin and Upton, and Bailey is at worth the #2 pitching prospect in baseball. Dont get me wrong, I love Yovani Gallardo, but he doesn't have the stuff that Bailey does. I think if anything, you underrate almost all of our prospects.

As for Gardner, I dont think I am going to be throwing him into any top 10 Reds prospect conversation, but I am happy for the guy who has battled back from a major arm injury and is pitching very well. What is the problem with rooting for a guy?

[Cedric]

We got a guy with a .966 ops and a .339 batting average and we are questioning his top end ability.

It's only been ten games buddy. Adam Dunn has only walked 6 times so far.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Cedric

We got a guy with a .966 ops and a .339 batting average and we are questioning his top end ability.

It's only been ten games buddy. Adam Dunn has only walked 6 times so far.

Cedric, you also forgot to mention the guy just turned 20 years old 17 days ago....

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Cedric, you also forgot to mention the guy just turned 20 years old 17 days ago....

Which is probably the best point. He's young and seemingly hitting everything. He probably feels like there isn't a pitch he can't hit right now and it's changing his approach a little.

Is that a major problem? I'd say not. He'll learn.