Fay answers questions from tonights game

[fisch11]

Here's what we found out in the wake the Reds' 8-6 loss to Houston, aka, Bullpen Meltdown II:

--Bronson Arroyo asked to come out of the game. "I was more tired than usual," he said. Arroyo didn't have a good change-up or breaking ball so he threw a lot of fastballs. He said he would stayed in if it was 4-2. But he thought the bullpen could get six outs with a five-run lead.

--Juan Castro pinch-hit in the ninth because Ken Griffey Jr. was sent home because of the flu. Jeff Conine is still hurt apparently. And Jerry Narron was saving Javy Valentin until the Reds got a someone on, which they never did.

--Kirk Saarloos took a lot of the blame for the meltdown. "I walked the first guy on the four pitches. That changed the whole complexion of the game.

Stat of the night: The bullpen came into the homestand with 1.77 ERA. The ERA on the homestand is 11.36.

-Fay

[alloverjr]

Originally Posted by fisch11

Here's what we found out in the wake the Reds' 8-6 loss to Houston, aka, Bullpen Meltdown II:


--Juan Castro pinch-hit in the ninth because Ken Griffey Jr. was sent home because of the flu. Jeff Conine is still hurt apparently. And Jerry Narron was saving Javy Valentin until the Reds got a someone on, which they never did.


-Fay

To :deadhorse , although one should reasonably expect to hold a 4 run lean with 6 outs to go, knowing your bench is even thinner than normal, why switch out Dunn in the 8th? If Sarloos pitches effectively in the 8th and his bat comes up in the bottom half, you can let him hit if the rationale is for him to go 2 innings. You would assume the lead is still at least 3. If it's not, you're going to pinch hit for him anyway and Dunn is still around. Silly thinking if you ask me.

[Cedric]

Kirk Saarloos being counted on for anything is a huge problem. He has a horrible track record. Why he was given such an important role is beyond me.

[TeamBoone]

Most of Jerry Narron's double switches seem to involve one of the top 3-4 batters. Dunn is often the "victim".

[thatcoolguy_22]

I kind of went on a tangent... disregard

[Razor Shines]

I think it's funny that the last two nights in the game thread Narron was blasted for taking out Harang and then Arroyo to early (by people who also blast him for leaving them in to long) and both times we find out that they asked to come out of the game. Narron was also blasted in the game thread for bringing in Weathers when he did. But what else was he supposed to do? He made the correct decision tonight to turn Berkman around and that didn't work out. And Weathers got DP ball that got booted by Gonzo. When Griffey made an error that cost the team a run, he was called lazy, worthless and many other things, but Gonzo gets the benefit of the doubt. I think they both should have.

I don't really have a good closing paragraph to tie all of that together. I guess it's just my thoughts after DVRing the game and wishing I hadn't not lisetened to the radio and hadn't stayed up this late to watch it.

One thing pretty much everybody does agree on is that Josh Hamilton is makes me happy to be a baseball fan. He's got that something makes you really focus when he comes to the plate. (I think that something is loads and loads of talent) Even if I have the game on but I'm doing other things and more just listening to it in the background, when Josh comes up I stop doing everything and just watch in awe. Come to think of it maybe I'm not to upset that I stayed up to watch the game.

[MikeS21]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

I think it's funny that the last two nights in the game thread Narron was blasted for taking out Harang and then Arroyo to early (by people who also blast him for leaving them in to long) and both times we find out that they asked to come out of the game. Narron was also blasted in the game thread for bringing in Weathers when he did. But what else was he supposed to do? He made the correct decision tonight to turn Berkman around and that didn't work out. And Weathers got DP ball that got booted by Gonzo. When Griffey made an error that cost the team a run, he was called lazy, worthless and many other things, but Gonzo gets the benefit of the doubt. I think they both should have.

True. Berkman's hit wasn't that hard. It simply found a hole between defenders. And if Gonzo makes that play like he will 999 out of 1000 times, the inning is over. And don't forget Brandon Phillips' throwing error set up that sacrifice fly.

And what's up with BOTH our #1 and #2 pitchers asking to come out of games?

[RFS62]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

I think it's funny that the last two nights in the game thread Narron was blasted for taking out Harang and then Arroyo to early (by people who also blast him for leaving them in to long) and both times we find out that they asked to come out of the game. Narron was also blasted in the game thread for bringing in Weathers when he did. But what else was he supposed to do? He made the correct decision tonight to turn Berkman around and that didn't work out. And Weathers got DP ball that got booted by Gonzo. When Griffey made an error that cost the team a run, he was called lazy, worthless and many other things, but Gonzo gets the benefit of the doubt. I think they both should have.

I don't really have a good closing paragraph to tie all of that together. I guess it's just my thoughts after DVRing the game and wishing I hadn't not lisetened to the radio and hadn't stayed up this late to watch it.

One thing pretty much everybody does agree on is that Josh Hamilton is makes me happy to be a baseball fan. He's got that something makes you really focus when he comes to the plate. (I think that something is loads and loads of talent) Even if I have the game on but I'm doing other things and more just listening to it in the background, when Josh comes up I stop doing everything and just watch in awe. Come to think of it maybe I'm not to upset that I stayed up to watch the game.

Excellent post

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

Most of Jerry Narron's double switches seem to involve one of the top 3-4 batters. Dunn is often the "victim".

I'm not saying I agree with it, because as we've seen over the years, it's common that the team later needs Dunn's offensive ability after a double switch has taken him out of the game, but he's often the victim of a double switch because of his subpar defense.

[Red in Chicago]

have we started the west coast swoon already? i thought these games were played in cincy

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

I'm not saying I agree with it, because as we've seen over the years, it's common that the team later needs Dunn's offensive ability after a double switch has taken him out of the game, but he's often the victim of a double switch because of his subpar defense.

Yep and don't forget the double switch of Dunn a week or so ago, in which Hamilton was inserted that saved the game. Hamilton busted his hump to get to the ball down the line and the runner had to hold out of respect for his arm. Dunn would have allowed the run to score. Blowing the save.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

I'm not saying I agree with it, because as we've seen over the years, it's common that the team later needs Dunn's offensive ability after a double switch has taken him out of the game, but he's often the victim of a double switch because of his subpar defense.

On the money, and I've not seen anything so far to make me change my mind.

[TOBTTReds]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

I'm not saying I agree with it, because as we've seen over the years, it's common that the team later needs Dunn's offensive ability after a double switch has taken him out of the game, but he's often the victim of a double switch because of his subpar defense.

That's obvious. But what doesn't make sense is that you replace him at all. He has such a potent bat that it doesn't make sense. I could see replacing someone like Hatteberg if we had someone like Doug Mientkiewicz. But you don't consistantly take out one of the most dangerous hitters in the league. Our pen gave up all 6 runs last night without hitting a ball to LF. Between 40-50% of all balls are hit up the middle, so it makes more sense with a SS, 2B, and CF'er too.

Dunn's offense easily out weighs his poor D, mostly because a LF'er does not impact the game that much. Also, with our bullpen being awful two out of three games before last night, a four run lead is not safe.

Also, like someone else mentioned, replacing him with Hamilton is fine too bc he is such a good hitter. I know Hopper has a good minor league track record, but we don't want him up in the 9th with the game on the line.

All in all, I can only blame the bullpen for games like last night, what else could JN have done (and I'm not a fan of JN)?

[mth123]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

That's obvious. But what doesn't make sense is that you replace him at all. He has such a potent bat that it doesn't make sense. I could see replacing someone like Hatteberg if we had someone like Doug Mientkiewicz. But you don't consistantly take out one of the most dangerous hitters in the league. Our pen gave up all 6 runs last night without hitting a ball to LF. Between 40-50% of all balls are hit up the middle, so it makes more sense with a SS, 2B, and CF'er too.

Dunn's offense easily out weighs his poor D, mostly because a LF'er does not impact the game that much. Also, with our bullpen being awful two out of three games before last night, a four run lead is not safe.

Also, like someone else mentioned, replacing him with Hamilton is fine too bc he is such a good hitter. I know Hopper has a good minor league track record, but we don't want him up in the 9th with the game on the line.

All in all, I can only blame the bullpen for games like last night, what else could JN have done (and I'm not a fan of JN)?

Agree with all this. Especialy the part about a LF not impacting the game that much on defense.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by MikeS21

True. Berkman's hit wasn't that hard. It simply found a hole between defenders. And if Gonzo makes that play like he will 999 out of 1000 times, the inning is over. And don't forget Brandon Phillips' throwing error set up that sacrifice fly.

And what's up with BOTH our #1 and #2 pitchers asking to come out of games?

Abuse from 2006 finally setting in.