Desperation Thunder Lineup To Compensate For The Poor Pitching

[Far East]

A "thunder" lineup puts the best sticks in the game virtually regardless of their defensive capabilities. It might be the only way to consistently run up a big enough lead to allow Jerry to then turn the game over to the unreliable pen and meanwhile get his best gloves off the bench into the game to help protect the (in theory) lead.

For example:

1B - HATTEBERG
2B - PHILLIPS
SS - GONZALEZ
3B - CONINE
LF- DUNN
CF - HAMILTON
RF - GRIFFEY
C - VALENTIN (He might even be hitting better right-handed than Ross is presently)

The thunder lineup has so many good bats that even whoever is batting 7th in the order is assured decent "protection" by the # 8 guy.

The thunder lineup would never require pinch-hitting one position player off the bench for another position player; all that's required is that Hopper, Ross, Freel, Keppinger, and/or Castro be a better offensive threat than the Reds' pitchers for whom they would be hitting.

With a hypothetical lead -- I'll arbitrarily say a 4 run lead after perhaps 6/7 innings -- the defense could then include some of the following bench guys:

1B - HATTEBERG
2B - PHILLIPS
SS - GONZALEZ
3B - Castro
LF- Hopper
CF - Freel
RF - HAMILTON
C - Ross

Yes, with Conine at 3B (until EE gets back up) it's a desperation lineup, but these are desperate times for the Reds and Reds' fans.

[BRM]

Ross is actually outslugging Valentin but Javy has him in OBP by a wide margin. It's scary that Conine and his .238/.315/.429 line is a part of any "thunder" lineup.

[Far East]

Originally Posted by BRM

Ross is actually outslugging Valentin but Javy has him in OBP by a wide margin. It's scary that Conine and his .238/.315/.429 line is a part of any "thunder" lineup.

In just 63 AB, Conine's .744 OBP ranks him sixth on the team, ahead of both Hatteberg and Freel. What might he be achieving if he had Hatteberg's 96, Freel's 123 or Philllips' 158 AB? He just might be displacing Phillips as the #5 OBP guy if he had not been riding the pines all of this time.

If so, then that means more run production from his individual spot in the batting order and a possible preventing of the opposition from pitching around/"pitching tough" to/intentionally walking others in the lineup.

Conine has played under 70 big league games at 3B, and only 2 in the last couple of years. But the present anemic offense needs at least 8 hitters; the DH lineup in Cleveland should tell.

[puca]

Playing Conine over Freel and Javy over Ross turns this offense into some sort of juggernaut? Wow....just wow. Two guys that are lucky to still be on a major league roster.

In just 63 AB, Conine's .744 OBP ranks him sixth on the team, ahead of both Hatteberg and Freel. What might he be achieving if he had Hatteberg's 96, Freel's 123 or Philllips' 158 AB? He just might be displacing Phillips as the #5 OBP guy if he had not been riding the pines all of this time.

I assume you mean OPS. Considering that OPS is independent on the number of ABs one gets, I don't get the 'in only 63 AB' comment. In fact, since Conine has been presumably getting most of his ABs in matchups favorable to him, you would expect his numbers to drop given full time play.

[WMR]

Wasn't 'Desperation Thunder' the name of a 90's Hulk Hogan movie?

[WMR]

Originally Posted by puca

Playing Conine over Freel and Javy over Ross turns this offense into some sort of juggernaut? Wow....just wow.



I assume you mean OPS. Considering that OPS is independent on the number of ABs one gets, I don't get the 'in only 63 AB' comment. In fact, since Conine has been presumably getting most of his ABs in matchups favorable to him, you would expect his numbers to drop given full time play.

Part of me WOULD like to see Conine at 3B, more for the comedic value than anything else.

[BRM]

Conine has been an out machine so far with a little bit of pop. As puca said, his numbers will probably get slightly worse if given an everyday job.

[PuffyPig]

So, the only real change is putting a bad fielding OF at third base in place of a better hitter.

I have trouble believeing that your post was meant seriously, as you've actually downgraded the offense and the defense.

[Far East]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

So, the only real change is putting a bad fielding OF at third base in place of a better hitter.

I have trouble believeing that your post was meant seriously, as you've actually downgraded the offense and the defense.

I'm never more serious than when the Reds are on a losing binge. Admittedly, the defense would be a downgrade, but only actually playing Conine at 3B and Javy in place of Ross would prove whether you are right or wrong about the offense. Obviously, the current 8 position guys are not getting it done. Would you continue to play those 8?

BTW, Conine so far is .220/.298/.439 against LHP, and is .273/.346/.409 against RHP. So I think he'd improve with more PT.

You're correct Wily Mo, my comment about Conine's .744 should have been OPS, but my reference to his few AB just was meant to show that an increase in PT might prove helpful to Conine and his stats.

[RedsManRick]

Any "best 8 lineup" that doesn't include EE isn't our best 8. I don't care if he's not on the 25 man.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

Wasn't 'Desperation Thunder' the name of a 90's Hulk Hogan movie?

Wasn't that Thunder in Paradise?

[WMR]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Wasn't that Thunder in Paradise?

LOL Yeah I believe so.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Any "best 8 lineup" that doesn't include EE isn't our best 8. I don't care if he's not on the 25 man.

That's just crazy talk!! Don't you know he's the whipping boy?