Lets all take a deep breath.

[TeamBoone]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

I have to echo what Savafan said. I'm thrilled to see so many on the Sun Deck getting a chance for their voice to be heard.

Heard? yes. Considered? not so much.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

Heard? yes. Considered? not so much.

I don't know. I've been reading over the posts on SD. It's refreshing to hear input from people who basically been drowned out over the years. I don't necessarly agree with all of it (as if I ever would), but it's nice to see different schools of thought being explored without someone getting bulldozed.

[texasdave]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

I have to echo what Savafan said. I'm thrilled to see so many on the Sun Deck getting a chance for their voice to be heard.

We outcasts had a chance for our voices to be heard on ORG. But I suppose that wasn't quite as thrilling.

I never really thought of myself as being an ORG-level poster. Yet it still stung to get booted out.

I freely admit that more of the better posters are in ORG. Not all certainly, but more. And I will miss them not being able to post in Sun Deck. I started most of my threads in Reds Live so more people could access them. And I knew that what I posted could and would be challenged by people in both areas of the board. Now that number has been cut in half. And being challenged in one's opinions is good. It forces you to think. It exposes holes in your thinking that never occurred to you. You learned more. And learning is never a bad thing.

[Shaggy Sanchez]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

I don't know. I've been reading over the posts on SD. It's refreshing to hear input from people who basically been drowned out over the years. I don't necessarly agree with all of it (as if I ever would), but it's nice to see different schools of thought being explored without someone getting bulldozed.

Doesn't that say something about the board in general if all of a sudden people are noticing posters that have been posting for years. It almost sounds as if you are saying that when the current members of ORG were able to post everywhere than all the non ORG members were always wrong and pushed aside. I always thought different schools of thought were always presented and if the people aren't now getting bulldozed what does that say about where the problem might have been.

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by Shaggy Sanchez

Doesn't that say something about the board in general if all of a sudden people are noticing posters that have been posting for years. It almost sounds as if you are saying that when the current members of ORG were able to post everywhere than all the non ORG members were always wrong and pushed aside. I always thought different schools of thought were always presented and if the people aren't now getting bulldozed what does that say about where the problem might have been.

Hence a major reason why ORG members are not permitted to post in the sundeck. ORG members absolutely bulldozed new posters in RL. It was part of the problem.

[TeamCasey]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

I don't know. I've been reading over the posts on SD. It's refreshing to hear input from people who basically been drowned out over the years. I don't necessarly agree with all of it (as if I ever would), but it's nice to see different schools of thought being explored without someone getting bulldozed.

I was trying to refrain from posting over here because I know people need to vent. I see this point as being really positive for Sundeck. I've heard so many people over the years say they don't want to post and get pounced on or nitpicked. It gives those folks breathing room.

[paulrichjr]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Hence a major reason why ORG members are not permitted to post in the sundeck. ORG members absolutely bulldozed new posters in RL. It was part of the problem.

I didn't think about that until you said it... You guys certainly spent a lot of time thinking this through and as I couldn't see the logic the first 5 minutes I understand it better now.

[dfs]

Originally Posted by TeamCasey

I was trying to refrain from posting over here because I know people need to vent. I see this point as being really positive for Sundeck. I've heard so many people over the years say they don't want to post and get pounced on or nitpicked. It gives those folks breathing room.

....what? Are you suggesting that ORG posters behave differently (nastier) when not in the ORG or that the behavior of ORG posters was somehow driving new people away from posting in redslive....and the way to get new folks to post more/better posts is to take away the ORG posters so everybody will play nice in the sandbox and then once you are out of the sandbox, those new posters will be better equiped to handle the behavior of ORG posters? Isn't that an argument for policing ORG members?

I mean that seriously. I'm honestly confused by your statement. Help me out here. I'm honestly trying to understand and I just don't.

[WVRed]

Originally Posted by dfs

....what? Are you suggesting that ORG posters behave differently (nastier) when not in the ORG or that the behavior of ORG posters was somehow driving new people away from posting in redslive....and the way to get new folks to post more/better posts is to take away the ORG posters so everybody will play nice in the sandbox and then once you are out of the sandbox, those new posters will be better equiped to handle the behavior of ORG posters? Isn't that an argument for policing ORG members?

I mean that seriously. I'm honestly confused by your statement. Help me out here. I'm honestly trying to understand and I just don't.

That is exactly what TC is saying.

We have some very knowledgable posters on ORG that determine the value of a player by stats. When a poster on Reds Live would make a post trying to tear down a player such as say Adam Dunn, posters would jump in with every stat imaginable to uphold Dunn(and vice versa). As paint said, people were getting railroaded in Reds Live and it caused a lot of the problems on the board.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

I think posters should be put in one of 10 different Reds forums, only being able to post in the forum they are placed in:

1. The Old Red Guard - This is where all the long-time posters (that the mods like, of course) would go.
2. The Todd Benziger Room - For all the nice guy posters who also happen to be kind of boring.
3. The Marge Schott Room - For all the "outspoken" posters
4. The Sean Casey Room - For all the nice guy posters who also happen to have a little charisma.
5. The Adam Dunn Room - For posters who have a lot of power in their words, but also tend to "wiff" too often when it comes to subject matter.
6. The Homer Bailey Room - For people who only post, hoping to gain access to TORG.
7. The Lurker Room - For people who like to read the threads, but never post.
8. The Kearns and Lopez Room - For people thinking of trying out a different forum.
9. The Ken Griffey Jr Room - Reserved for posters who have an unusually high amount of man-love for KGJ.
10. The Kingdome Astroturf Room - Reserved for posters who have an unusually low amount of man-love for KGJ.


I think if the posters were divided in this fashion, that the quality of posts in each room would increase dramatically. Also, if a poster is placed in one forum but wants to be in another, he/she should be able to change forums by writing a 2 page explanation to the mod of their choice, followed by a 2/3rds approval vote by TORG members, followed by 3/4 mod approval.


All in all I like the 2 forum change though. Being a new member, one thing that really used to bother me was being able to interact with the more established posters here. Problem solved. "You and your folks, me and my folks." And never shall the two pass again.

Getting rid of the rep system was a great idea too. Sure it was a tool to try to keep people in line, but it was all too frequently misused. And everyone knows that any tool that can be misused needs to be wiped out. Sidenote: Please support my cause www.banthehammer-ijustsmashedmythumb.org I know with your support we can all but eliminate hammer related thumb bruises.

Well anyway, just wanted to say great job, great site, and great changes! To the newer posters, I look forward to hearing all of your great insights and information, and to the older posters, I look forward to our new segregated "see-but-dont-touch" relationship.

[TeamCasey]

Originally Posted by dfs

....what? Are you suggesting that ORG posters behave differently (nastier) when not in the ORG.

Nope.

Originally Posted by dfs

....or that the behavior of ORG posters was somehow driving new people away from posting in redslive.

IMO, there was a steady friction. I've also had private conversations with newer people who were intimidated to post for a variety of reasons.

Originally Posted by dfs

........and the way to get new folks to post more/better posts is to take away the ORG posters so everybody will play nice in the sandbox and then once you are out of the sandbox, those new posters will be better equiped to handle the behavior of ORG posters?.

Maybe ..... hadn't really thought of it that way. For me it was about the numbers and the noise. It wasn't fun to read 10-20 pages of recurring friction. I think many people simply stopped reading. I did. Not blaming RL or ORG ..... although there's enough blame to spread around. The heart of the issue (IMO) was the rapid, huge growth of the board.

Originally Posted by dfs

Isn't that an argument for policing ORG members?

Nope though I've been won over by sending everyone to there own corners for everyone's benefit. I had to chew on all of this the same as many of you are. I think the changes will help the long term growth of the board.

That said, I agree Sundeck should be able to have a game thread.

I hope I answered your questions and didn't screw up the quotes too badly. I'm a little tired tonight.

[James B.]

I don't post very often and don't mind the change. I just wished that the posters in the sundeck should be allowed access to a gamethread. I have been posting and mostly reading on this site (used to be under the name Tennessee Reds Fan) since about the time it started and can understand why some people feel like outcast. A huge amount of quality posters were demoted. One thing that I don't understand is why people are calling posting on this message board work. I think this is a message board to have fun and talk baseball with reds fans but it seems that some are "working to win elder posters approval. This makes no since to me.

[TeamBoone]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Hence a major reason why ORG members are not permitted to post in the sundeck. ORG members absolutely bulldozed new posters in RL. It was part of the problem.

Some very much did; I didn't like it either. But I truly think the majority did not. Most of us know who the offenders were, and if they weren't reprimanded for it, they should have been.

It was like the bullies on the playground in grade school. And we all know how we felt about them, even if we weren't a victim.

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

Some very much did; I didn't like it either. But I truly think the majority did not. Most of us know who the offenders were, and if they weren't reprimanded for it, they should have been.

It was like the bullies on the playground in grade school. And we all know how we felt about them, even if we weren't a victim.

I do agree with you TB. It wasn't the majority. However, the posts in question generally were not in violation of the rules. How am I to reprimand someone for posting in an intimidating way? Stats can be really intimidating to someone not used to them. But they aren't against the rules. Posters who did cross the line were punished and punished severely. It didn't stop the problem.

This solution solves the problem. Unequivocally.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by WVRed

That is exactly what TC is saying.

We have some very knowledgable posters on ORG that determine the value of a player by stats. When a poster on Reds Live would make a post trying to tear down a player such as say Adam Dunn, posters would jump in with every stat imaginable to uphold Dunn(and vice versa). As paint said, people were getting railroaded in Reds Live and it caused a lot of the problems on the board.

I think some of it comes from the ability to respect somebody else's opinon. You could feel their opinon is completely wrong, but it still needs to be respected. Nobody is perfect, and I'm just as guilty as everybody else. Sometimes, opinons don't need facts. It's just how you personally feel.

When I found out I wasn't part of the top 240, I was mad and dissapointed. I applied for the ORG, and honestly thought about leaving if I didn't make it. I mean, I really, really want to be part of the ORG. I hope I'm liked enough and seen knowledgable enough by ORG posters to be in, and I still feel that way. I find it especially hard for bubble posters like me and OBM. You want to be part of the ORG, byt at the same time you don't want to try to distinguish youself or put yourself above sun deck posters.

However, if I don't get voted in I'm not going to leave. If I sit here and say if I don't get voted into the ORG I'm going to leave, I am as guilty as those who I was mad at for not seeing me as one of the top 240 posters on the board. I'll be here posting in the Sun Deck with everybody else and doing my best to contribute to redszone anyway I can.

I hope I get voted into the ORG, if for no other reason then to know I am a quality poster and an asset to the board. If I'm not, all I can do is try to become an asset and improve my posts.