Silver lining to tonight's loss

[M2]

Yes, losing at home to the Rangers is no fun and having the worst record in baseball hinging on tomorrow's game is even less fun, but some identifiably good happened tonight.

Brad Salmon, Jonathan Coutlangus, Todd Coffey and Marcus McBeth pitched four innings of one hit, one walk, one HBP, no run, five strikeout baseball in a tight game. Jerry Narron used them and they delivered.

Of course there's always the worry he'll now use them every day until their arms fall off, but those four could bring some sanity to the bullpen for the remaining 94 games of this season.

[RedEye]

Really good point. I just wish that Wayne had started to build a bullpen with youth last year. Better late than never, I guess.

[chicoruiz]

Salmon, in particular, looked good tonight...as though he'd rediscovered the fun of throwing Strike One.

[Aronchis]

McBeth seemed to have the best movement though he almost got tagged by Loften.

[TOBTTReds]

Originally Posted by RedEye

Really good point. I just wish that Wayne had started to build a bullpen with youth last year. Better late than never, I guess.

Well, all but McBeth were here last year in the organization. Coffey was doing his thing, Cout still needed time, and Salmon was the only one that could have used a bit of time at the ML level. I think the McBeth pick up will be another "rabbit out of the hat" deals he makes.

[guttle11]

Coffey was hitting 95 consistently, and Salmon was hitting 93-94. That's big.

[pedro]

Those are some guys that you can really build around IMO. The Reds are a spectacular disaster from a won/loss perspective this year but I do think there are some good things coming together in the organization.

[WVPacman]

I've always like Salmons and Burns!! I really think if those two can figure out that they need to throw the pitch that got them up there then they would be ok. if they can learn when to throw an off speed pitch to the batter after they throw the fast ball one or twice to keep the batter off balance then I really do think we have found our late inning setup and closer pitchers for the future.If it all works out that way then it will be interesting to see were these to pitches in the games.

[Unassisted]

I like silver linings. I'd also like to see Todd Coffey's yoyo string get tangled while it's in the up position for a change. Maybe the youthful exuberance of his new bullpen mates will be the tonic that's needed to keep Mr. Coffey wearing the cap with the Wishbone C for his longest stint of the season?

[red-in-la]

Boy, to find a silver lining you have to be an optimist on drugs......just kidding.

The silver lining I see to this series would be a Rangers sweep and MORE plays like the one where the 3B slide tackles the catcher to cost a critical out.

I haven't even seen one that silly (and stupid) in my grandson's little league games......I mean, don't these guys practice this stuff?

Anyway, a Rangers sweep might embarrass the owner (ala soP) into finally cleaning house. As much as you guys disliked Bowden, I cannot see where ANY of his teams ever fell so far and looked so clueless on the field.

I want a new GM (a real one this time) and a new manager in place in time enough to know enough about the problem to do a fire sale July 31.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by red-in-la

Boy, to find a silver lining you have to be an optimist on drugs......just kidding.

The silver lining I see to this series would be a Rangers sweep and MORE plays like the one where the 3B slide tackles the catcher to cost a critical out.

I haven't even seen one that silly (and stupid) in my grandson's little league games......I mean, don't these guys practice this stuff?

Anyway, a Rangers sweep might embarrass the owner (ala soP) into finally cleaning house. As much as you guys disliked Bowden, I cannot see where ANY of his teams ever fell so far and looked so clueless on the field.

I want a new GM (a real one this time) and a new manager in place in time enough to know enough about the problem to do a fire sale July 31.

So true. So true.

A real GM. Heck this bunch thinks the return of Bray and Everyday Eddie will make a difference. Can you believe that? They still think they have a contender.

Go to church, light a candle or whatever your tradition is and pray ( or whatever you do) that Castellini sees the light, fires Krivsky and hires a man who will show Narron the door and actually pay some money for leadership. I know, that's a stretch, but only divine intervention will right this team.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

So true. So true.

A real GM. Heck this bunch thinks the return of Bray and Everyday Eddie will make a difference. Can you believe that? They still think they have a contender.

Go to church, light a candle or whatever your tradition is and pray ( or whatever you do) that Castellini sees the light, fires Krivsky and hires a man who will show Narron the door and actually pay some money for leadership. I know, that's a stretch, but only divine intervention will right this team.

Your protesting notwithstanding, we have a real GM. As some of us have said, you don't turn things around in a short time. And we're dealing with a short time here; the new ownership has only been in place 1 1/2 years and the GM position wasn't filled until right before last year's Spring Training.

As for paying for leadership, Narron's salary isn't, and never has been, the issue. He's paid similarly to many managers, some of whom are in first place. Of course, look at what the big bucks are getting for the Yankees, the Cubs, and the Redbirds.

I agree with some of the other posters here who acknowledge that there are some good things starting to come around for this club, even if the record still doesn't show it. I'll look at the real silver lining they're seeing, not the ongoing disdain for most things Reds that others seem to gravitate towards.

[mth123]

I agree with M2 concerning the young bullpen pitchers. This season the pen has been a wasteland for two reasons:

1. Wayne Krivsky (the "GM") and his insistence on spending the little cash he had on mediocrities like Stanton, Cormier and Saarloos. (And yes, I thought Weathers was a bad signing too.)

2. Jerry Narron (the "Manager") and his complete lack of understanding when to remove a pitcher, when to use a pitcher and how exactly to keep a productive pitcher on a roll.

I do give some credit for the McBeth acquisition. He appears to be a cheap and useful young arm with some stuff. He may never be closer material but could be a decent quality guy to round out the pen. If the Reds can get these younger guys somewhat established it makes the picture a lot brighter.

If this "GM" shops his best trading chip for bullpen help (as rumored) much in the same way that last year he shopped his best trading chips for bullpen help, then those criticizing are absolutely correct. IMO. this "GM" is not much of a GM and he will not ever make the move from "GM" to GM until he does something about making a move from "Manager" to Manager. Firing Narron should be his first order of business. Trading for Bullpen help unless its the high leverage impact arm (who's still pretty cheap for a few years) should be the last thing on hs mind. Time to look at our own which M2 astutely points out in the initial post.

[Sea Ray]

Kudos to the 4 young relievers on a nice game. Does it bother anyone that Narron insists on only using these guys for one inning at a time? I think he needs to consider leaving in a middle reliever who's throwing well for two innings. It's fine to limit closers to one inning but I think he's best to stretch out these kids to a second inning. I think the work would be good for them and I think the team would benefit too. Especially with this bullpen, if you use 4 of them, you've got 4 times the chances that one of them will be awful. To their credit, last night was not one of those nights.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Kudos to the 4 young relievers on a nice game. Does it bother anyone that Narron insists on only using these guys for one inning at a time? I think he needs to consider leaving in a middle reliever who's throwing well for two innings. It's fine to limit closers to one inning but I think he's best to stretch out these kids to a second inning. I think the work would be good for them and I think the team would benefit too. Especially with this bullpen, if you use 4 of them, you've got 4 times the chances that one of them will be awful. To their credit, last night was not one of those nights.

I agree. Its hard to avoid running these guys into the ground when he warms up and uses all of them everynight from overmanaging and making too many moves. I will say that right now I'm not real sure which of these guys is capable of multiple innings stints but I'd prefer he use fewer pitchers per game with more nights off for the others mixed in.