The Dunn market...and the Krivsky market...

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by Red Leader

Some teams might be more interested in Dunn as a "rent a player." Some teams like the Twins for example might want his bat for this year, but not tie themselves to a long term contract and a big contract with him.

Just throwing that out there.

IMO, the Twins are a win NOW team. With Johan Santana up for Free Agency. A bat like Dunn's in that lineup with a healthy Maurer could lead them to a title.

[WVPacman]

Originally Posted by RedEye

I have to think there is SOME way they could get a good deal. My problem is that I just don't know if our GM has the patience or the wherewithal to find it. I hope he makes me eat crow, I really do.

I see whats your saying and besides your point was proven with the trade with the Nationals.I really thought that he would have waited longer and looked at other deals before pulling the trigger.

[WVRedsFan]

With Adam Dunn, these Reds are averaging 4.52 runs per game. Take out Adam Dunn and his .61 runs per game RBI average and you move the Reds to about 3.91 runs per game. His replacement would be Norris Hopper or Ryan Freel, i suspect who have historically averaged driving in +/- .18 runs per game so you are down to 4.07 runs per game. In order for us to get a bullpen pitcher to compensate for Dunn's performance, he ould have to have a 0.57 ERA the rest of the year, and pitch approximately 100 innings. Ain't nobody out there like that. Especially for Adam Dunn. Add to that the success that Mr. Krivsky has had with relief pitchers, and this would be a horrible mistake.

I have no doubt he would do it and will do it. Is it for the future? Not on your life. This team from the owner (who believes that when Bray and Eddie get back, we'll start winning) to the manager (who loves that veteran presence), simply doesn't get it. You must score runs as well as prevent them from scoring. Trading your RBI leader for a gosh-darn (I'm being nice here) relief pitcher is subject to a test for insanity. Getting to the future would be trading Hatteberg, Conine,Castro, Stanton, Moeller, Majewski (if possible), Weathers, and a couple of other players and bringing in the kids. Your offense would still be intact and you could play for the future.

Of course, with the mess that is the Reds, that's not going to happen. These fools think we can still win with the personnel we have minus Dunn. Griffey, and with a little more relief pitching.

Vomit...

[M2]

Bill Stoneman has seen a number of prospects come through the system, fail and subsequently lose all of their value, but he has never leveraged any of their reputations to help the major-league squad.

To me that's the key sentence in the entire Sheehan piece. Far too many teams seem to auditioning for the part of either Estragon or Vladimir in "Waiting for Godot". I remember a few years back when folks in the media and baseball industry were insisting Edwin Jackson was WAAAAAAAAY more valuable than a good everyday player like Dunn.

Los Anaheim literally has four shortstops in the majors and upper minors. Meanwhile it needs an impact bat, but it refuses to turn its prospect windfall into usable talent. Minnesota's been sitting on young pitchers that haven't been materializing for years. That club might be wearing World Series rings if it had dealt arms like Scott Baker and J.D. Durbin while their stock was high.

I understand wanting to keep ahold of a few key prospects, but it seems like some organizations have a dozen plus on the untouchable list. That's pure insanity. No system has a dozen future frontline major leaguers in its system at this moment, not one. Make a trade for some right now, try to win something. I sometimes wonder if MLB execs have simply lost the plot.

[BCubb2003]

Originally Posted by M2

either Estragon or Vladimir

I know Vlad but whom did Estragon play for?

[Big Klu]

Originally Posted by BCubb2003

I know Vlad but whom did Estragon play for?

Ahhhhh......!

[Krusty]

If Wayne K. could acquire Perkins and Garza in the same deal for Dunn.......uh, where do you sign off on the deal?

[IslandRed]

Originally Posted by RedEye

Good god. Does anyone else get an upset stomach when they read this kind of article? It's not that I'm against trading Dunn, but I just have ZERO confidence that Wayne will get ANYTHING of value back in return. If he flips Dunn for two relief pitchers, I might just be done following the team for this year (okay, granted that's an unrealistic threat that I've made many times over the past 20 years or so, but you get my point...)

We commented on that in one of the other threads. Not sure where that came from, since the other rumors floating around didn't say the Reds were chasing relievers. See the Angels thread -- and sure enough, it's, "why are we looking for a second baseman?" People love to extrapolate. Maybe it's not that they're fixated on second basemen as a need, but they love Kendrick specifically. Some other team may have been asked about a potential closer because that's the best of what they have. To me, that's exactly what the Reds should be doing.

[red-in-la]

If Krivsky ends up trading the two golden chips (Kearns and Dunn) and ends up with nothing, he will have made Dick Wagner look like a baseball genius....by comparison.

I have to think Yankees here....only because they don't seem to mind throwing their farm system away for a rent-a-player........

[westofyou]

Kearns looks more like pyrite then gold at this juncture.

[VR]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Kearns looks more like pyrite then gold at this juncture.

Lopez has been worse. Yikes.

[Spitball]

Originally Posted by red-in-la

If Krivsky ends up trading the two golden chips (Kearns and Dunn) and ends up with nothing, he will have made Dick Wagner look like a baseball genius....by comparison.

This is one reason I think there is a strong possibility that Dunn won't be traded. If the Kearns/Lopez trade had not been such a public relations disaster, I believe Krivsky would be able to boldly go out and trade Dunn. Trading one of the stars of a team is always a tricky matter, but now there is added pressure.

If Dunn were the only attractive "rent a slugger" option out there, I believe there would be teams willing to make attractive competitive offers for him. However, there are plenty of potential "rent a sluggers" out there this year. I don't believe Krivsky will be offered a package from another club that he can feel confident about announcing to the Cincinnati public in a news conference.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by M2

To me that's the key sentence in the entire Sheehan piece. Far too many teams seem to auditioning for the part of either Estragon or Vladimir in "Waiting for Godot". I remember a few years back when folks in the media and baseball industry were insisting Edwin Jackson was WAAAAAAAAY more valuable than a good everyday player like Dunn.

Los Anaheim literally has four shortstops in the majors and upper minors. Meanwhile it needs an impact bat, but it refuses to turn its prospect windfall into usable talent. Minnesota's been sitting on young pitchers that haven't been materializing for years. That club might be wearing World Series rings if it had dealt arms like Scott Baker and J.D. Durbin while their stock was high.

I understand wanting to keep ahold of a few key prospects, but it seems like some organizations have a dozen plus on the untouchable list. That's pure insanity. No system has a dozen future frontline major leaguers in its system at this moment, not one. Make a trade for some right now, try to win something. I sometimes wonder if MLB execs have simply lost the plot.

being able to correctly assess tha talent in your own organization is the key ability of a GM. Like I've said it's what has made Schuerholz a success. A good GM knows which prospects to deal(and when) and those he needs to keep.

[flyer85]

If all Wayne ends up with is pitching prospects he is making a mistake.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by Spitball

This is one reason I think there is a strong possibility that Dunn won't be traded. If the Kearns/Lopez trade had not been such a public relations disaster, I believe Krivsky would be able to boldly go out and trade Dunn. Trading one of the stars of a team is always a tricky matter, but now there is added pressure.

I don't see Wayne as a guy who cares about PR, he probably leaves that all to Bob, if he signs off on it I can Dunn being shipped out for a less then stellar return