The Dunn market...and the Krivsky market...

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Reds1

The problem is you can't get a concensus.(sp) I don't want him gone, but for the right deal I might. Trading him just to trade him for crap would make me as a fan not go to the ballpark. Now, I'm a huge fan and would watch on tv, but well - you get the point.

You're never going to know what all Reds Fans believe but just like in political polls and television ratings, a sample size will have to do. Based on that I think there clearly seems to be a consensus to trade him. I don't think it's 90-10 or 51-49 but it does seem that there is a strong urge to trade him. I'm not talking about those who would trade him only if there was a good sized return for him. I'm talking about the people who feel his negatives outweigh his positives. Some may feel stronger than others and some may want more for him than others but they feel that he should be traded.

I could be wrong but let's just say I am right and there does seem to be a consensus to trade Dunn. My question is since the fans spend their hard earned money to watch the Reds play, and if most of them feel Dunn should be traded, should Wayne do what the fans want and trade him for the best deal he can get? Is he obligated to trade Dunn if that is what the fans clearly desire? I say no but do others feel he should?

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Chip R

My question is since the fans spend their hard earned money to watch the Reds play, and if most of them feel Dunn should be traded, should Wayne do what the fans want and trade him for the best deal he can get? Is he obligated to trade Dunn if that is what the fans clearly desire? I say no but do others feel he should?

WK should do whatever helps the Reds become a winning team. That's what the fans want most of all

[wheels]

Whoever just mentioned Dave Williams gave me the chills big time.

A Dave Williams-like return on Dunn is a very real possibility.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by wheels

Whoever just mentioned Dave Williams gave me the chills big time.

A Dave Williams-like return on Dunn is a very real possibility.

I just don't see it.

[wheels]

Originally Posted by pedro

I just don't see it.

I'm getting scared, though.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by wheels

Whoever just mentioned Dave Williams gave me the chills big time.

A Dave Williams-like return on Dunn is a very real possibility.

Ugh.

I think a Maj/Bray/Clayton return is more likely, which would be slightly better. Not much, though.

[paulrichjr]

Originally Posted by wheels

Whoever just mentioned Dave Williams gave me the chills big time.

A Dave Williams-like return on Dunn is a very real possibility.

It's not going to happen. Dunn will be traded for at least one very good prospect, and I mean very good, or he won't be traded at all. (OK not Homer good but good)

I could see him being traded for a prospect like Votto.

[IslandRed]

I don't know. Surely, at 27-43, the front office isn't fielding offers with the expectation the return will put us in the playoffs THIS season. If it is, well, forget it. That leaves a future-based return, and Krivsky needs to measure any offer against the baselines of (1) two high draft picks we could get just by letting Dunn walk and (2) the ability to pick up the option and try again next summer. If we accept a terrible return such as mentioned on this page, it'll likely be because Krivsky's under orders to dump payroll, NOW, and deals will be on the OBO (or best offer) basis. That would be coming straight from the owner's office and that's a scary thing to contemplate. But I prefer not to hang people for things they haven't done, so I'll wait and see what happens.

[Aronchis]

If we accept a terrible return such as mentioned on this page, it'll likely be because Krivsky's under orders to dump payroll, NOW, and deals will be on the OBO (or best offer) basis. That would be coming straight from the owner's office and that's a scary thing to contemplate.

Then you aren't going to get that terrible of return, maybe a bit underwhelming, but not terrible. Dunn's value just off the bat is decent, what you are looking for is the kill, which may or may not be available.

[PuffyPig]

The minimum return I would expect for Dunn would be a Billingsley/Young return from the Dodgers.

That is, a good cheap starter with real potential, and a young OF who could replace Dunn, and supply an .800 OPS as part of a platoon.

[WVRedsFan]

Probably Krivksy has already found out that neither Dunn nor Griffey will bring much. Alan Cutler is screaming (which is his custom) tonight to trade both and get $36 million to work with, but hasn't mentioned the deferred payments which make Griffey essentially untradeable. He screams for pitching which he should know by now that Wayne isn't so good a judge of.

The problem with this team is the owner and the GM and the manager think this team is good and only another relief pitcher (we carry more than almost anyone) away from sweeping the last 100+ games). A team than can only win with the HR and the two biggest HR threats would be traded. The rest of the team cannot hit and run or run and hit. The team has a pitching staff who throws fly balls that go into the stands at frequent intervals.

Yeah, build for the future, but let someone else do it. I don't trust these guys.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Griffey really isn't owed that much. The deferred payments were factored into past payrolls. I think he's due $7M+ for the rest of this year, $12.5M for 2008, and a 4M buyout in 2009 (with an option for 2009).

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

Probably Krivksy has already found out that neither Dunn nor Griffey will bring much. Alan Cutler is screaming (which is his custom) tonight to trade both and get $36 million to work with, but hasn't mentioned the deferred payments which make Griffey essentially untradeable. .

Reds have funded the deferred payments year by year. The team Jr would be traded to would only be only hook for funding the annuity for the last year of the contract.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg

Griffey really isn't owed that much. The deferred payments were factored into past payrolls. I think he's due $7M+ for the rest of this year, $12.5M for 2008, and a 4M buyout in 2009 (with an option for 2009).

Yep that's something that a lot of radio/tv/paper people get wrong, the Reds have already put that cash away, it's basically a non factor when talking a JR deal.

[Guacarock]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg

Griffey really isn't owed that much. The deferred payments were factored into past payrolls. I think he's due $7M+ for the rest of this year, $12.5M for 2008, and a 4M buyout in 2009 (with an option for 2009).

You're correct in that the Reds have been investing all along to cover Jr's deferred payments, so they are a non-factor as far as any potential trades.

But anyone who exercised his 2009 option would owe him $16.5 million for that year, and failure to exercise the option would cost his team the $4 million buyout plus his $12.5 million salary for 2008, for a grand total of $16.5 million next season.

The long and short of it: Acquiring Jr. would still be an expensive proposition for most teams.