Biggio to Announce Retirement

[Joseph]

Just heard this on the radio as I was at lunch. Presser in about an hour.

Let me just say that while I never rooted for the opposition, watching Biggio and Bagwell all those years in Houston was nice as a baseball fan.

[M2]

Effective immediately or after the season?

For his sake, I hope it's immediately. He's not doing his team or his legacy any favors hanging around playing as poorly as he is at this moment.

[Cyclone792]

One of the five greatest second basemen in the history of the game, IMO.

I hated watching the Astros beat the Reds, but I loved watching Craig Biggio play. Biggio's 1997 season itself is one of the greatest and most underrated and underappreciated seasons of this generation.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by M2

Effective immediately or after the season?

For his sake, I hope it's immediately. He's not doing his team or his legacy any favors hanging around playing as poorly as he is at this moment.

I just read the article and it's after the season.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

One of the five greatest second basemen in the history of the game, IMO.

I hated watching the Astros beat the Reds, but I loved watching Craig Biggio play. Biggio's 1997 season itself is one of the greatest and most underrated and underappreciated seasons of this generation.

He was a good ball player but in his prime he wasn't even in the top 2. I would take both Alamor and Kent over Biggio any day.

[Johnny Footstool]

Biggio is a sure-fire HOF'er at 2B.

He's still hitting lefties very well this season (318/.351/.489) and he's only 3 HBPs away from the all-time record. I say the Reds should help him break that record the next time they face the Astros. C'mon, Craig, lean into a couple more for the record books.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

Biggio is a sure-fire HOF'er at 2B.

He's still hitting lefties very well this season (318/.351/.489) and he's only 3 HBPs away from the all-time record. I say the Reds should help him break that record the next time they face the Astros. C'mon, Craig, lean into a couple more for the record books.

My bet is he never once was denied 1st base because he didn't try to get out of the way. That's a rule I've never seen enforced

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

He was a good ball player but in his prime he wasn't even in the top 2. I would take both Alamor and Kent over Biggio any day.

Unless your going for team wins.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Rojo

Unless your going for team wins.

huh?

[M2]

Biggio was one of three dominant 2Bs during the bulk of the 1990s. The other two, Robbie Alomar and Chuck Knoblauch, saw their careers ram into walls. Jeff Kent was a late bloomer, who's been far better in his 30s (over the past decade) than he was in his 20s during the bulk of the 1990s.

For the 10 seasons from 1992-2001, Biggio and Alomar were nothing short of stellar. Along with Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Larkin, Larry Walker and Jeff Bagwell, they were on the short list of best all-around players in baseball during those years.

[RedLegSuperStar]

For someone who has been a catcher, a center fielder, and a second baseman.. and who played them above average.. amazing!

Truly one of the class acts

[chicoruiz]

If you look at his "most similar" lists on BaseballReference.com you get some pretty impressive comps, including Morgan, but also Alomar, Lou Whitaker, and even Pete. Actually Rose, another multi-position guy, might be a better all-around comp than the pure second basemen. It would be interesting to compare their win shares season-by-season.

[RedsBaron]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

He was a good ball player but in his prime he wasn't even in the top 2. I would take both Alamor and Kent over Biggio any day.

I wouldn't. Biggio in his prime was better than Alomar or Kent, and his career has better, too. Other than having a greater peak value than Alomar and Kent, and a greater career value than Alomar and Kent, Biggio was inferior to them.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

My bet is he never once was denied 1st base because he didn't try to get out of the way. That's a rule I've never seen enforced

Never a fan of the armor either.

Still, great player

[RedsBaron]

Originally Posted by chicoruiz

If you look at his "most similar" lists on BaseballReference.com you get some pretty impressive comps, including Morgan, but also Alomar, Lou Whitaker, and even Pete. Actually Rose, another multi-position guy, might be a better all-around comp than the pure second basemen. It would be interesting to compare their win shares season-by-season.

I can quickly give you their Win Shares from 1990 through 2001, but I don't have a book with the post-2001 numbers, which doesn't greatly matter for Biggio and Alomar, since 1990-2001 covers their prime:
Biggio: 18, 20, 32, 26, 26, 29, 32, 38, 35, 31, 11, 25-Career 342
Alomar: 19, 25, 24, 30, 13, 16, 31, 21, 19, 35, 20, 37-Career 345
Kent: 0, 0, 10, 13, 18, 11, 11, 22, 25, 23, 37, 27- Career 197
I assume that by now Biggio's career Win Shares total exceeds Alomar's, since I do not believe Almoar significantly added to his total after 2001, since his career fell off a cliff after that. Before that, they were very close. Kent has probably significantly increased his career total.
I would defintiely vote to induct Biggio and Alomar into the Hall of Fame, and probably Kent as well. In his "New Historical Baseball Abstract" published in 2001, Bill James ranked Biggio no. 5, Alomar no. 10 and Kent no. 48 among all second basemen. I would assume that Kent would be in James's top twenty if he made the list now.
If you want to add Rose and Morgan to the list, here's Pete's Win Shares from 1963 through 1986:
19, 12, 27, 25, 24, 32, 37, 29, 28, 32, 34, 27, 31, 30, 23, 27, 27, 17, 17, 17, 7, 8, 14, 3-Career 547
Joe's Win Shares from 1963 through 1984:
1, 0, 30, 19, 26, 2, 24, 24, 29, 39, 40, 37, 44, 37, 30, 17, 18, 21, 14, 29, 19, 12-Career 512
During the 1970s, Joe Morgan lead all major league players with 315 Win Shares for the decade. Pete Rose was second with 288. Johnny Bench was third with 263. The Reds had some decent players then.