8/3/07 - Minor League Update

[NJReds]

Originally Posted by reds44

It's not just you my Bearcat friend.

Truth is, nobody will know until he gets a chance. Hopefully it's sometime this summer, as Conineberg isn't going to lead us to the promised land.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Let me ask you guys something that don't buy into Joey Votto.....

What makes you believe he isn't that good?

I'm probably not who this is directed at because I'm a huge Joey fan, but I'll take a shot.

My concern with Votto lies completely in his power. I think he can be a pretty decent major league hitter and I'm pretty sure he can have a good career in a Sean Casey or Scott Hatteberg kind of way. My reservations are simply that at 1B, I want more than that. I am not convinced that JV is going to be the prototypical guy who can do all those Casey and Hatte things while slugging .500+ and putting up 30 HRs. Honestly, when you look around and see guys like Pujols, Berkman, Lee, Gonzalez, DelGado, Howard, Fielder and Teixiera, a 1B like Hatte is a disadvantage versus the competition even if he is one of the better hitters on the team. Joey needs to be a lot better than that, even though if he'd put up a Hatte like season each year, he'd probably be considered a good hitter.

So, for me anyway, it isn't that I don't think Votto will be a decent major league hitter. I just am not convinced that he'll put up enough power at 1B to keep the competition from having a leg up on the Reds.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by mth123

I'm probably not who this is directed at because I'm a huge Joey fan, but I'll take a shot.

My concern with Votto lies completely in his power. I think he can be a pretty decent major league hitter and I'm pretty sure he can have a good career in a Sean Casey or Scott Hatteberg kind of way. My reservations are simply that at 1B, I want more than that. I am not convinced that JV is going to be the prototypical guy who can do all those Casey and Hatte things while slugging .500+ and putting up 30 HRs. Honestly, when you look around and see guys like Pujols, Berkman, Lee, Gonzalez, DelGado, Howard, Fielder and Teixiera, a 1B like Hatte is a disadvantage versus the competition even if he is one of the better hitters on the team. Joey needs to be a lot better than that, even though if he'd put up a Hatte like season each year, he'd probably be considered a good hitter.

So, for me anyway, it isn't that I don't think Votto will be a decent major league hitter. I just am not convinced that he'll put up enough power at 1B to keep the competition from having a leg up on the Reds.

FYI, HAtteberg has the 9th best OPS of first baseman in the majors this year.

On your list, he is ahead of Berkman, Gonzalez, Delgado, plus ahead of Konerko,and Helton.

If Votto can walk and hit 20 HR's per season, he can post a .900 OPS. THere's currently only 7 firstbaseman in the majors at that level.

[indy_dave00]

I think Joey Votto might be suffering post trade deadling syndrome. He had his hopes up Hatteberg would be traded and was disappointed he wasn't. Think his being switched lf for a couple game then first for a couple then left could be affecting him too.

Joey will be a hitter in the majors prob in .280-.290 range with good power to all fields , he's just struggling a little right now , he'll bounce back
.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Let me ask you guys something that don't buy into Joey Votto.....

What makes you believe he isn't that good?

His swing.

[TOBTTReds]

I like Votto's hitting a lot. I like his approach too. A solid patient hitter. He will be a lot like Dunn, but with fewer HR's. I think he is bored now, and maybe a bit deceived by the view of media and fans that he would be with the Reds by now. It is a shame he isn't here because we have two 40 year olds playing instead of him on a last place team.

[acredsfan]

I know I would be disappointed if I were Votto. What more does he have to do? If you aren't going to play him then trade him, he needs to get some big league experience. If you aren't going to give it to him then give the kid a chance to do it elsewhere.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by acredsfan

I know I would be disappointed if I were Votto. What more does he have to do? If you aren't going to play him then trade him, he needs to get some big league experience. If you aren't going to give it to him then give the kid a chance to do it elsewhere.

He's 23. It's not like he is 26 and rotting in AAA. It's still his first year in AAA. It's not like he is destroying AAA either. His .843 OPS is good, but not something that is eye popping. Outside of his great May, his AAA campaign has been pedestrian. While I think the Reds should have traded Hatteberg because he has very little future with the club, he actually has a higher OPS (.882) then Votto does.

There's plenty more Votto can do and has to learn in AAA.

[dougdirt]

Just a quick note. The Sarasota Reds played a double header yesterday.

Derrik Lutz picked up the save in both games. He threw 1 inning and 0.2 innings in each game. How weird is that?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by reds44

There's plenty more Votto can do and has to learn in AAA.

Votto turns 24 soon. But what is this 'plenty more' that Joey needs to learn?

[reds44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Votto turns 24 soon. But what is this 'plenty more' that Joey needs to learn?

How about getting his OPS higher then our current 1st baseman?

Votto's not getting a raw deal, folks.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by reds44

How about getting his OPS higher then our current 1st baseman?

Votto's not getting a raw deal, folks.

You do know that the home park Votto plays in is a park that supresses singles, doubles, triples and HR right? Likewise, Cincinnati allows HR more than any park in baseball short of Philly and allows a fair share of doubles as well.

While I don't have a problem with Hatteberg at all as a player or a person, he will not be on the Reds next time it actually matters to be a Red. Votto should be getting at bats right now to be getting ready for that time.

Here is the way I look at Votto....

He is Scott Hatteberg with a few more strikeouts and a lot more power even though he is 14 years younger.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by reds44

How about getting his OPS higher then our current 1st baseman?

Votto's not getting a raw deal, folks.

Oh and that also isn't something to work on. I think that will just simply happen once he gets to hit 250 times a year in Cincinnati.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

You do know that the home park Votto plays in is a park that supresses singles, doubles, triples and HR right? Likewise, Cincinnati allows HR more than any park in baseball short of Philly and allows a fair share of doubles as well.

While I don't have a problem with Hatteberg at all as a player or a person, he will not be on the Reds next time it actually matters to be a Red. Votto should be getting at bats right now to be getting ready for that time.

Here is the way I look at Votto....

He is Scott Hatteberg with a few more strikeouts and a lot more power even though he is 14 years younger.

And I don't disagree at all with that. I agree 100% with you.

However to somehow insinuate that Votto is getting a raw deal when he's not even outperforming his counterpart isn't fair.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Oh and that also isn't something to work on. I think that will just simply happen once he gets to hit 250 times a year in Cincinnati.

So you think there is no difference in MLB and AAA competition?