Looking to see who can be centerfield

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by paulrichjr

I just can't see the Reds focusing on this during the offseason. I think they see Hamilton, Bruce, Freel, and Hopper as being 4 people that can play center and that will be the end of that discussion. Dunn will be in left, Hamilton/Freel/Hooper in CF and Griffey in RF until the trade deadline and then I would not be surprised to see Dunn and Griffey both traded to make room for Bruce and one of the others from CF. The catcher position, the starters, and the pen is where the action will be this winter.

I think Jr is key. Trade him, move Hamilton to right and add a true centerfielder, you've upgraded two positions. Replace Hamilton with a true centerfielder and you've upgraded defensively at one position while (probably) taking an offensive hit.

[Spitball]

Corey Patterson - Patterson's seriously OB challenged and his power comes and goes, but he does have his plusses. He's got primo wheels, he's only 28, he's an average BA guy and he might just be the best defensive CF alive (.903 RZR this season, .949 last year). Patterson might just have himself a prime, especially if someone sticks him in a bandbox. If his BA ticks up to .280-.290 range and his power settles in, then you might be looking at a discount version of Aaron Rowand.

I believe Patterson might be a nice one year gamble if Boros is forced to shift strategies. Patterson's mediocre 2007 season and the glut of center fielders on the market might make it difficult to find that multi-year deal Boras will want.

He might opt to sign a one year deal with the hope Patterson could put up better numbers in 2008 that could be parlayed into a better multi-year deal. Cincinnati, the GABP, and NL pitching might be very attractive to Boras.

I look at Patterson and see the potential for a Brandon Phillips type re-birth and performance.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Rojo

If there looking at him as Beltran II, then they've gotta to be disappointed.

Not really. Obviously Dejesus is not Beltran. However, I think it's a flawed approach to evaluate a player based upon who he is not. IMHO some are seriously undervaluing what Dejesus actually does bring to the table. He's consistently been a 2.5 win bat who plays above average defense at a premium defensive position. He's locked up through 2011 at really rock bottom prices for the position. He"s basically a check mark at a position that's both very tough to cross off the list and is an expensive item on the free agent market.

There's much more underlying KC's likely unwillingness to deal Dejesus than his popularity with the fans.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by MikeS21

I'm still not seeing what the problem is with Josh Hamilton in CF. He has good speed, gets good reads off the bat, has the range to go into the gaps, and has the arm to hold runners from advancing. Other than a few minor, coachable mental mistakes, he's better than average. Hamilton may not win a Gold Glove, but I think he has the ability to become one of the top six or eight CF's in baseball.

It's range issues that will basically prevent Hamilton from being a legitimate center fielder.

[M2]

Originally Posted by jojo

Not really. Obviously Dejesus is not Beltran. However, I think it's a flawed approach to evaluate a player based upon who he is not. IMHO some are seriously undervaluing what Dejesus actually does bring to the table. He's consistently been a 2.5 win bat who plays above average defense at a premium defensive position. He's locked up through 2011 at really rock bottom prices for the position. He"s basically a check mark at a position that's both very tough to cross off the list and is an expensive item on the free agent market.

There's much more underlying KC's likely unwillingness to deal Dejesus than his popularity with the fans.

No doubt, he's a useful player. Then again, the Royals arguably could get the same thing from Gathright (in fact they are). A team as bad as the Royals ought to want to turn that potential surplus into something. I forgot that DeJesus signed that sweetheart deal, so it's possible that cost certainty could make him central to the Royals' plans. Perhaps that means Gathright's available for peanuts.

[M2]

Originally Posted by Spitball

I believe Patterson might be a nice one year gamble if Boros is forced to shift strategies. Patterson's mediocre 2007 season and the glut of center fielders on the market might make it difficult to find that multi-year deal Boras will want.

He might opt to sign a one year deal with the hope Patterson could put up better numbers in 2008 that could be parlayed into a better multi-year deal. Cincinnati, the GABP, and NL pitching might be very attractive to Boras.

I look at Patterson and see the potential for a Brandon Phillips type re-birth and performance.

Good point about the one-year deal. Patterson does have some tantalizing tools and he could be a rich man if he could put it all together for one season. He'd certainly bring a vacuum with him into the field.

[RFS62]

I just don't see the Reds going out and getting another centerfielder. I think they're going with Hamilton next year, with Hopper getting a lot of at bats against lefties.

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by jojo

IMHO some are seriously undervaluing what Dejesus actually does bring to the table. He's consistently been a 2.5 win bat who plays above average defense at a premium defensive position. He's locked up through 2011 at really rock bottom prices for the position.

I'm not undervaluing him, I just wonder if the lack of flash means that KC might. But I didn't know about the contract.

[SteelSD]

Please no Corey Patterson. Please no. I will produce cat pictures!

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by RFS62

I just don't see the Reds going out and getting another centerfielder. I think they're going with Hamilton next year, with Hopper getting a lot of at bats against lefties.

My feelings exactly.

[AtomicDumpling]

The Reds best trading chip is Joey Votto right now (assuming Harang, Phillips, Bailey, Bruce and Hamilton are untouchables). Joey Votto is a guy we want to keep, but you have to give up something good to get something good. If you want to convince a team to trade a guy like Granderson, Gathright or Pence you will have to offer them a package including Votto and possibly Cueto as well. Given the logjam in the Reds' infield it is possible that Encarnacion or Keppinger could be traded because they are good enough to be improvements over many teams' infielders. We could get something good for them.

My guess is Votto, Encarnacion and Keppinger are all more likely to be traded this offseason than either Dunn or Griffey simply because they are expendable and they have more value due to their performance, contract situation and age. The Reds will pick up Hatteberg's option and trade him too. The Reds have more valuable trade bait now than any time in the last several years. Krivsky should have plenty of options to work with this winter.

Then you could put the new guy (Granderson, Gathright, Pence) in centerfield, Hamilton in right field, Griffey in left field and Dunn at first base. Bruce would take over in left field if/when Griffey or Dunn gets traded.

This would take one lefty bat off the squad, hopefully to be replaced with a righty bat (or at least a guy that can hit LH pitchers well).

[mth123]

Originally Posted by paulrichjr

I just can't see the Reds focusing on this during the offseason. I think they see Hamilton, Bruce, Freel, and Hopper as being 4 people that can play center and that will be the end of that discussion. Dunn will be in left, Hamilton/Freel/Hooper in CF and Griffey in RF until the trade deadline and then I would not be surprised to see Dunn and Griffey both traded to make room for Bruce and one of the others from CF. The catcher position, the starters, and the pen is where the action will be this winter.

This is my thought as well. I think Dunn/Hamiton/Griffey is the primary OF next year. I'd like to see Griffey dealt for whatever pitching he can secure and go with Dunn/Bruce/Hamilton. I think Hopper will be around as a bench/platoon player. He can be an asset as long as we get a manager who uses him corrrectly.

As for the list, I think a couple names not yet mentioned for the market come from the big 2 markets. Johnny Damon looks to be very available with Melky taking over in NY and Coco Crisp probably will be moved to make room for Ellsbury.

Damon is signed through 2009 at $13 Million per year and its questionable whether he can play CF anymore IMO. I'd pass, but he is probably out there.

Crisp is a reasonable target. He's still young, has had a pretty good improvement defensively in CF after a rough start in Boston (based on some reports I've read, but I've also read that his defense is questionable maybe M2 and the rest of the Boston contingent can help here). His contract is fairly reasonable at $4.75 Million in 2008 and $5.75 Million in 2009 with an $8 Million in option in 2010 ($500K buyout). That is cheaper on the budget than any of the Free Agents will be. He may be obtainable with the market so glutted. I have to think with Ellsbury on the way and with Drew around as a fallback, Crisp could be had for possibly less than we think. Boston will probably look for a young 1B to allow Youkilis to play 3B and let Lowell walk. That screams Votto and I'm not sure I'd do that. Maybe Boston would want Hatte back to play 1B (he fits the patient plate selective criteria in Boston) and view dumping Crisp's salary in a glutted market while making room for Ellsbury and allowing Youkilis to play 3B (saving salary there with Lowell leaving also) as enough return if the Reds throw in a middling minor leaguer or two to boot. Another option could be Hatte/Freel. Hatte slides in at 1B and Freel provides a bench option, a 4th OF and a CF back-up plan if Ellsbury tanks. The dollars are still a wash and the savings from Lowell would still be there. I'd be all for a Hatte/Freel for Crisp deal. Maybe a young relief possibility or two like McBeth, Salmon, Guevara or even Majewski would be enough of a sweetener.

[Jpup]

Josh Hamilton would be my center fielder for, at least, the next 6 seasons. The outfield certainly isn't the problem. The Reds need pitching, pitching, pitching. If they pick up Dunn's option, or better yet, extend his contract, they are set in the outfield with Dunn, Hamilton, & Jr. If Jr. is traded, that opens the door for Jay Bruce to start the year in Cincinnati.

The only problem I see for the Reds, as far as the lineup, is the catcher spot and possibly 3rd if Edwin can't get it all together.

Pitching...

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Jpup

Josh Hamilton would be my center fielder for, at least, the next 6 seasons. The outfield certainly isn't the problem. The Reds need pitching, pitching, pitching. If they pick up Dunn's option, or better yet, extend his contract, they are set in the outfield with Dunn, Hamilton, & Jr. If Jr. is traded, that opens the door for Jay Bruce to start the year in Cincinnati.

The only problem I see for the Reds, as far as the lineup, is the catcher spot and possibly 3rd if Edwin can't get it all together.

Pitching...

Have to agree, though dealing someone (Junior/Dunn), getting pitching/prospects in return and using the saved money to get an OFer (Hunter?) is pretty attractive.

Though pitching is of the most urgent priority, IMO.

[M2]

Originally Posted by RFS62

I just don't see the Reds going out and getting another centerfielder. I think they're going with Hamilton next year, with Hopper getting a lot of at bats against lefties.

You're probably right, but I just can't behind that kind of lack of ambition. Sooner or later the Reds have to stop trying to do just enough and look to excel.