Ross has to go.

[RedsMightWin]

Originally Posted by ThirdBaseCoach

Here is a challenge - analyze every decision the manager makes during the course of every game, rather than cherry picking the few that you think support your point as a certified critic of baseball managers.

So you are in fact saying it was the right move?

Its wrong that I question a managers moves but its right that you bash a guy for striking out 3 times? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to get at.

Griffey striking out 3 times sucks but why the heck do I have to chose between the two?

Are you related to Pete or something?

[ThirdBaseCoach]

Originally Posted by RedsMightWin

So you are in fact saying it was the right move?

Its wrong that I question a managers moves but its right that you bash a guy for striking out 3 times? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to get at.

Griffey striking out 3 times sucks but why the heck do I have to chose between the two?

Are you related to Pete or something?

I would not say whether a manager's decision is "the right move". Only the outcome determines that after it happens. The point is, you can not cherry pick a manager's decisions and second guess every move he makes. And you do not have to "choose" between two unrelated events.

I am not bashing Jr either, that's a false characterization.

The players directly impact the game with every action they make, whether it is striking out three times, making a base running mistake, an error, hitting a bomb onto Sheffield Ave., pitching seven quality innings, or any number of individual efforts.

[RedsMightWin]

so Jerry Narron pinch hitting Juan Castro for Josh Hamilton wasnt stupid its just people cherry picking?

[ThirdBaseCoach]

Originally Posted by RedsMightWin

so Jerry Narron pinch hitting Juan Castro for Josh Hamilton wasnt stupid its just people cherry picking?

I assume that's a rhetorical question.

To characterize a decision as stupid is unfair and can only be done after the fact. At the time, JN thought it was the right thing to do. We can never know an alternate outcome because Josh did not get the opportunity to perform, that's all.

[RedsMightWin]

Originally Posted by ThirdBaseCoach

I assume that's a rhetorical question.

To characterize a decision as stupid is unfair and can only be done after the fact. At the time, JN thought it was the right thing to do. We can never know an alternate outcome because Josh did not get the opportunity to perform, that's all.

So managers should never get criticized since we would never know the alternate outcome?

[AmarilloRed]

I would imagine that Ross will stay on the team because of his contract; he may not be a starter next year though

[ThirdBaseCoach]

Originally Posted by RedsMightWin

So managers should never get criticized since we would never know the alternate outcome?

To criticize is to find fault with, or to point out a flaw. It becomes apparent only after the fact that if a decision does not return a positive outcome it can be called a flawed decision. No manager intentionally makes a flawed decision.

Perhaps we do not always agree with a manager's decisions. It is too easy, and unfair, to find fault with his decisions, since we have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight.

[RedsMightWin]

Originally Posted by ThirdBaseCoach

To criticize is to find fault with, or to point out a flaw. It becomes apparent only after the fact that if a decision does not return a positive outcome it can be called a flawed decision. No manager intentionally makes a flawed decision.

Perhaps we do not always agree with a manager's decisions. It is too easy, and unfair, to find fault with his decisions, since we have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight.

So managers should never be fired since we can never find fault in any of their choices no matter what they are. Managers make mistakes all the time but since we cant tell if the mistake will have any different of an outcome than the other choice we should just say oh well it was the better idea.

When David Ross came up last night with runners on 1st and 3rd you better believe I thought it was wrong for Javy to not be batting.

[ThirdBaseCoach]

Originally Posted by RedsMightWin

So managers should never be fired since we can never find fault in any of their choices no matter what they are. Managers make mistakes all the time but since we cant tell if the mistake will have any different of an outcome than the other choice we should just say oh well it was the better idea.

When David Ross came up last night with runners on 1st and 3rd you better believe I thought it was wrong for Javy to not be batting.

Managers generally get fired because their teams do not perform up to their potential. You can't fire the team, so the manager goes. You stated an absolute, ironically I think, "managers should never be fired" that is illogical. Sometimes change is necessary. A decision is determined to be a mistake because the players involved did not execute. Ross did not execute. Perhaps other factors, of which you have no knowledge, were working to keep Javy from batting. We do not know.

[GoReds33]

I think he will be the starter next year. If someone is willing to give up something decent for him I would have no problem with Javy starting, and Perez coming up and being a backup.

[RedsMightWin]

Originally Posted by ThirdBaseCoach

Managers generally get fired because their teams do not perform up to their potential. You can't fire the team, so the manager goes. You stated an absolute, ironically I think, "managers should never be fired" that is illogical. Sometimes change is necessary. A decision is determined to be a mistake because the players involved did not execute. Ross did not execute. Perhaps other factors, of which you have no knowledge, were working to keep Javy from batting. We do not know.

So managers never make mistakes

Noted thanks

[ThirdBaseCoach]

Originally Posted by RedsMightWin

So managers never make mistakes

Noted thanks

I am glad you finally see the light, RMW.

[RedsMightWin]

I dont see the so called light. I am just tired of your opinion on it.

[jnwohio]

There has been a lot of talk about the Reds taking looks at players (or mostly not taking looks at players) with an eye to the future.

It was painfull to see Ross last nite against the Cubs and also earlier against the Brewers (bases loaded DP to end inning); but maybe Pete stuck with Ross because those were situations where the everyday catcher has to to get the job done. BY not getting it done, Ross was telliing the club plenty about himself in regard to the future.

[DannyB]

Originally Posted by StrikeIndicator

I have said it before and will say it again here, his much vaunted defense often comes at a great expense both to the pitcher's era and the final box score

With runners in stealing position he too often sets up on the outside of the plate (right handers) so that he gets that extra leverage and jump to throw to second. Where it works, he looks like a great defensive catcher.

The scouting reports on him tells the hitters to sit back and wait on this pitch and the next thing you know 1 or 2 runs have scored.

Pitcher gets the blame.:thumbdown

A few weeks ago Javy called for an inside curve ball on an obvious stealing count/situation. The pitcher threw it, struck out the batter for out number 2out and the runner went to 2nd base.
The other team announcers made a big point of how important (and unselfish) it was for the catcher to sacriface his stats for the good of the team.

Ross would never have called for that pitch.

If all you are looking at is post game stats Ross's stand out as a good-very good defensive catcher.
If you watch game films, you see an entirely different picture. You see a catcher who is more concerned about the runner stealing 2nd than the batter getting a hit for extra bases and/or RBI's and you see a catcher is early in the season would not call inside pitches for the guys out of the Pen, which IMHO contributed to a number of blown saves and a great deal of criticism of the bull pen.

Our best runs of the season came when Ross wasn't catching every game.

While they still play him more than I think they should, maybe the FO sees this to and that is why their first round pick in the draft was a catcher.

Thank you
I could have never said all that