John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

redsfan4445 · 09-23-2007, 10:01 AM

Per John Fay's article..

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...30406/1082/SPT

"Never draft for need: In 2002, the Reds were set on drafting a pitcher. But they brought in a chubby first baseman for a workout anyway. He sprayed line drives around the park and showed great power. The Reds drafted Chris Gruler third overall that year. The first baseman went seventh to Milwaukee. His name? Prince Fielder."

What I am shocked about, yes knowing we could have had him, but knowing Griffey Jr was around him when he was young, you think his name would have came up and maybe Jr could have said to the Reds front office: YES draft him!!

amazing how many good players this organization i the past let slip away: Prince Fielder, Derek Jeter to name two!!

Phhhl · 09-23-2007, 01:06 PM

It's so easy to do that. I remember when Fielder was drafted, and it was no deep, dark secret that he was a great prospect. I am sure the Reds liked him just fine. But, this organization ALWAYS needs pitching, and nobody knew at that time that Gruler was going to blow his arm out. Johnny Bench himself said Gruler's curve ball was better than Tom Seaver's, so you really can't hang that choice on the front office.

Matt700wlw · 09-23-2007, 01:12 PM

They could have had Jeter at one point too....

Oops.

edabbs44 · 09-23-2007, 01:13 PM

Gruler was ranked 7th overall by BA and Fielder was 24th. It's not like they passed up the #1 ranked guy overall for a guy ranked 50th.

alexad · 09-23-2007, 01:32 PM

IT is always about "WHAT IF'S" Like what if last year, the Reds went out to the West Coast and did not fall flat on their face, them maybe they could have been the team to make the playoffs and win the World Series.

Every team has a list of What IF. What about the other 6 teams who did not draft Prince, are they possibly saying the same thing?

redsmetz · 09-23-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

They could have had Jeter at one point too....

Every major league club passed on Albert Pujols 13-14 times.

Matt700wlw · 09-23-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsmetz

Every major league club passed on Albert Pujols 13-14 times.

True as well.

Dummies

alexad · 09-23-2007, 01:39 PM

I hope there are a number of teams that will say the same thing about Bruce in a few years.

KronoRed · 09-23-2007, 01:48 PM

I love that a lot of these "THEY SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED SUCH AND SUCH" articles are always about an offensive player..as if offense is why this team has stunk for 8 years.

cincinnati chili · 09-23-2007, 01:55 PM

The Brewers went against the conventional wisdom picking up Fielder, mostly due to his weight issues.

That still doesn't excuse the drafting of Gruler. Rarely if ever do high school pitchers or college relievers warrant 7-figure bonuses.

Matt700wlw · 09-23-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincinnati chili

That still doesn't excuse the drafting of Gruler. Rarely if ever do high school pitchers or college relievers warrant 7-figure bonuses.

Well, let's hope Homer Bailey doesn't follow that rule...

M2 · 09-23-2007, 02:04 PM

There's a dozen "what if" guys you could choose from the 2002 draft instead of Gruler. The two who got the most play around here at the time were Scott Kazmir and Jeff Francis. That Chris Gruler was ginned up to be something he wasn't when the Reds picked was fairly common knowledge at the time.

redsmetz · 09-23-2007, 02:08 PM

Draft history is why the thought of letting Dunn walk and taking draft picks is so inane. Baseball drafts are such a roll of the dice - it's not like it is in the NFL or NBA. It's an extremely rare player who makes an immediate impact for the drafting club. If you look at the list of 1st round picks for each team, it's fraught with failure.

dougdirt · 09-23-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincinnati chili

The Brewers went against the conventional wisdom picking up Fielder, mostly due to his weight issues.

That still doesn't excuse the drafting of Gruler. Rarely if ever do high school pitchers or college relievers warrant 7-figure bonuses.

Since 2002, there have been plenty of high school pitchers worth their signing bonus.

2002
Zack Greinke
Jeff Francis
Scott Kazmir
Cole Hamels
Matt Cain

2003
Chad Billingsley

2004 (these guys are barely 21 years old right now, but I bet the Reds and the Yankees are enjoying their money well spent right now)
Homer Bailey
Phil Hughes

Sure, there were some flops in there.... but there were flops for college pitchers, hitters, relievers, everything. Thats how the MLB draft is.

cincinnati chili · 09-23-2007, 03:24 PM

Doug:

I haven't done the research in a few years, but last time I checked high schoolers with 7-figure bonuses have a significantly higher failure rate than college and juco guys. In other words, I think your examples are exceptions, rather than the rule. Josh Beckett is another good recent exception.

If I were GM, and the scouting director wanted to blow a first round pick on a high school arm, he'd have to be pretty convincing.

And I disagree about Bailey. More than likely, I still say he turns out to be a below-average major league pitcher. I'm less convinced of that than I was a couple years ago, but it's much too premature for the Reds to proclaim success.

09-23-2007, 01:06 PM	#2
Phhhl Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 3,890	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? It's so easy to do that. I remember when Fielder was drafted, and it was no deep, dark secret that he was a great prospect. I am sure the Reds liked him just fine. But, this organization ALWAYS needs pitching, and nobody knew at that time that Gruler was going to blow his arm out. Johnny Bench himself said Gruler's curve ball was better than Tom Seaver's, so you really can't hang that choice on the front office.

09-23-2007, 01:12 PM	#3
Matt700wlw Making sense of it all Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 26,131	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? They could have had Jeter at one point too.... Oops. __________________ An excited shade of Red

09-23-2007, 01:13 PM	#4
edabbs44 Box of Frogs Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 15,822	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? Gruler was ranked 7th overall by BA and Fielder was 24th. It's not like they passed up the #1 ranked guy overall for a guy ranked 50th.

09-23-2007, 01:32 PM	#5
alexad HS Athletic Director Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleves, Ohio Posts: 1,165	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? IT is always about "WHAT IF'S" Like what if last year, the Reds went out to the West Coast and did not fall flat on their face, them maybe they could have been the team to make the playoffs and win the World Series. Every team has a list of What IF. What about the other 6 teams who did not draft Prince, are they possibly saying the same thing? __________________ Taylor High School Home of the "Yellowjackets"

09-23-2007, 01:39 PM	#8
alexad HS Athletic Director Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleves, Ohio Posts: 1,165	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? I hope there are a number of teams that will say the same thing about Bruce in a few years. __________________ Taylor High School Home of the "Yellowjackets"

09-23-2007, 10:01 AM	#1
redsfan4445 Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 2,732	John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? Per John Fay's article.. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...30406/1082/SPT "Never draft for need: In 2002, the Reds were set on drafting a pitcher. But they brought in a chubby first baseman for a workout anyway. He sprayed line drives around the park and showed great power. The Reds drafted Chris Gruler third overall that year. The first baseman went seventh to Milwaukee. His name? Prince Fielder." What I am shocked about, yes knowing we could have had him, but knowing Griffey Jr was around him when he was young, you think his name would have came up and maybe Jr could have said to the Reds front office: YES draft him!! amazing how many good players this organization i the past let slip away: Prince Fielder, Derek Jeter to name two!!

09-23-2007, 01:48 PM	#9
KronoRed The Lineups stink. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: West N. Carolina Posts: 55,343	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? I love that a lot of these "THEY SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED SUCH AND SUCH" articles are always about an offensive player..as if offense is why this team has stunk for 8 years. __________________ Go Gators!

09-23-2007, 01:55 PM	#10
cincinnati chili post hype sleeper Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 10,350	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? The Brewers went against the conventional wisdom picking up Fielder, mostly due to his weight issues. That still doesn't excuse the drafting of Gruler. Rarely if ever do high school pitchers or college relievers warrant 7-figure bonuses. __________________ On Dasher On Dancer On Prancer Ondrusek

09-23-2007, 02:04 PM	#12
M2 Posting in Dynarama Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 26,668	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? There's a dozen "what if" guys you could choose from the 2002 draft instead of Gruler. The two who got the most play around here at the time were Scott Kazmir and Jeff Francis. That Chris Gruler was ginned up to be something he wasn't when the Reds picked was fairly common knowledge at the time. __________________ Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong I'm witchcrafting everybody.

09-23-2007, 02:08 PM	#13
redsmetz Redsmetz Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winton Place Posts: 10,452	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? Draft history is why the thought of letting Dunn walk and taking draft picks is so inane. Baseball drafts are such a roll of the dice - it's not like it is in the NFL or NBA. It's an extremely rare player who makes an immediate impact for the drafting club. If you look at the list of 1st round picks for each team, it's fraught with failure.

09-23-2007, 03:24 PM	#15
cincinnati chili post hype sleeper Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 10,350	Re: John Fay's article today-- 2002 draft the Reds could have had.....????? Doug: I haven't done the research in a few years, but last time I checked high schoolers with 7-figure bonuses have a significantly higher failure rate than college and juco guys. In other words, I think your examples are exceptions, rather than the rule. Josh Beckett is another good recent exception. If I were GM, and the scouting director wanted to blow a first round pick on a high school arm, he'd have to be pretty convincing. And I disagree about Bailey. More than likely, I still say he turns out to be a below-average major league pitcher. I'm less convinced of that than I was a couple years ago, but it's much too premature for the Reds to proclaim success. __________________ On Dasher On Dancer On Prancer Ondrusek

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