Managerial search over. It's Dusty. - Page 4 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

westofyou · 10-11-2007, 03:55 PM

Dusty Baker is too much of grandstander and excuse maker for my taste, not to mention his tendency to manage like he's in Dodger Stadium in the 70's. The only thing that he sells that others don't is his ability to handle larger then life characters, well in a year (or less) the Reds won't need to worry about that.

They'll always have to worry about arms in that park, thus just walk away from the long shot who has no chance of saving those same arms.

Johnny Footstool · 10-11-2007, 03:56 PM

I'd be more concerned for Bailey and Cueto than Harang. Arroyo has also shown a propensity to wear down with overuse.

But I think this is just idle speculation, anyway.

Reds Fanatic · 10-11-2007, 03:57 PM

This is from another article about Baker from the Chicago Tribune last weekend:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....cubs-headlines

Quote:

Baker and his family recently left their longtime suburban San Francisco home and moved into a home they built northeast of Sacramento. Now 58, he hasn't ruled out a return to baseball, but he's enjoying his ESPN duties and will work as a "Baseball Tonight" studio panelist during the league championship series and the World Series.

"Life is good," Baker said. "I'm doing fine."

Hopefully Baker stays happy and stays where he is at ESPN.

redsmetz · 10-11-2007, 03:58 PM

Out of curiousity, what do folks think of his record in San Francisco with their pitching staff? He seems to have had some success and I understand that could just be the difference in the park (Candlestick was fairly 'pitcher friendly', no?). Is it possible that he just happened to have some of the most fragile arms ever in Prior and Wood?

RFS62 · 10-11-2007, 03:58 PM

One thing we know, he wouldn't be cheap. And if they're willing to consider paying his going rate, maybe it's not just lip service that they're considering big name managers.

dougdirt · 10-11-2007, 04:02 PM

But how many 'big name' managers are actually good managers?

westofyou · 10-11-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsmetz

Out of curiousity, what do folks think of his record in San Francisco with their pitching staff? He seems to have had some success and I understand that could just be the difference in the park (Candlestick was fairly 'pitcher friendly', no?). Is it possible that he just happened to have some of the most fragile arms ever in Prior and Wood?

My opinion of Dusty is based solely on SF, he inherited some good hurlers from Craig and company and had a strong BP. They went out and got him Schmidt... who might be experiencing some of the Karma in volve din pitching for Dusty as we type.

Code:

SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS
CAREER
AN FRANCISCO GIANTS
CAREER
1993-2002

INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             ERA      IP     
1    Robb Nen                   2.43    378.1   
2    Mike Jackson               2.48    119.2   
3    Tim Worrell                2.87    150.1   
4    Felix Rodriguez            3.00    297.1   
5    Bill Swift                 3.00    342     
6    Rod Beck                   3.19    318.2   
7    Jason Schmidt              3.43    251.2   
8    Chad Zerbe                 3.46    101.1   
9    John Burkett               3.64    391     
10   John Johnstone             3.68    222.1   
11   Trevor Wilson              3.74    192.2   
12   Bud Black                  3.89    148     
13   Mark Dewey                 3.91    115     
14   Rich Rodriguez             3.98    187.2   
15   Russ Ortiz                 4.01    924.2   
16   Mark Portugal              4.03    241.1   
17   Kirk Rueter                4.08   1169.1   
18   Shawn Estes                4.25    990     
19   Jeff Brantley              4.28    113.2   
20   Julian Tavarez             4.34    228.1   
21   Mark Leiter                4.38    331     
22   Orel Hershiser             4.41    202     
23   Livan Hernandez            4.44    746.1   
24   Dave Burba                 4.44    212.2   
25   Ryan Jensen                4.46    214     
26   William Van Landingham     4.54    477.1   
27   Allen Watson               4.61    185.2   
28   Joe Nathan                 4.61    187.1   
29   Aaron Fultz                4.66    181.2   
30   Osvaldo Fernandez          4.70    228

dougdirt · 10-11-2007, 04:05 PM

Courtesy of firedustybaker.com

Ltlabner · 10-11-2007, 04:08 PM

Perhaps RZ should fire up the "emails to the front office" campagin in a preemptive protest against Baker? Why wait till he is hired to go sub-critical tatical nuke?

Some well thought out, and well written emails/letters/phone calls might perk up some ears at the Reds FO if they are serriously considering Baker.

lollipopcurve · 10-11-2007, 04:15 PM

The importance of pitch limits has become more evident over time. I figure Baker would get it by now.

Big name, good track record. Folks clamoring for that kind of thing should like the choice, I figure.

I'd be on the fence. I like him as a guy who commands respect, but I don't know that he'd handle the young guys well, and the Reds are going to be relying on youth a lot over the next few years.

redsmetz · 10-11-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westofyou

My opinion of Dusty is based solely on SF, he inherited some good hurlers from Craig and company and had a strong BP. They went out and got him Schmidt... who might be experiencing some of the Karma in volve din pitching for Dusty as we type.

Code:

SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS
CAREER
AN FRANCISCO GIANTS
CAREER
1993-2002

INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             ERA      IP     
1    Robb Nen                   2.43    378.1   
2    Mike Jackson               2.48    119.2   
3    Tim Worrell                2.87    150.1   
4    Felix Rodriguez            3.00    297.1   
5    Bill Swift                 3.00    342     
6    Rod Beck                   3.19    318.2   
7    Jason Schmidt              3.43    251.2   
8    Chad Zerbe                 3.46    101.1   
9    John Burkett               3.64    391     
10   John Johnstone             3.68    222.1   
11   Trevor Wilson              3.74    192.2   
12   Bud Black                  3.89    148     
13   Mark Dewey                 3.91    115     
14   Rich Rodriguez             3.98    187.2   
15   Russ Ortiz                 4.01    924.2   
16   Mark Portugal              4.03    241.1   
17   Kirk Rueter                4.08   1169.1   
18   Shawn Estes                4.25    990     
19   Jeff Brantley              4.28    113.2   
20   Julian Tavarez             4.34    228.1   
21   Mark Leiter                4.38    331     
22   Orel Hershiser             4.41    202     
23   Livan Hernandez            4.44    746.1   
24   Dave Burba                 4.44    212.2   
25   Ryan Jensen                4.46    214     
26   William Van Landingham     4.54    477.1   
27   Allen Watson               4.61    185.2   
28   Joe Nathan                 4.61    187.1   
29   Aaron Fultz                4.66    181.2   
30   Osvaldo Fernandez          4.70    228

It must be late in the day and I'm being thick, but I'm not sure I'm understanding the point of the chart - many of the ERA's seem reasonable and only Krueter pitched a ton (I'm guessing he was there the entire tenure).

westofyou · 10-11-2007, 04:21 PM

Well, it's pretty relief pitcher heavy with most of the other guys fitting the same pattern, soft stuff and fly balls.. which is great in the Bay Area, especially at Candlestick. But I think his leaning on the BP was his saving grace in SF, and most of the starters were products of the Craig regime, hence why so many burned out to (forkball)

However Dusty and the Giants had their best years in ERA In Pac Bell and with the Craig leftovers.

Code:

SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS
SEASON
1993-2002


ERA                           YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
1    Giants                   2002     0.56     3.55     4.11   
2    Giants                   2000     0.42     4.21     4.64   
3    Giants                   1993     0.42     3.63     4.05   
4    Giants                   1994     0.23     3.99     4.22   
5    Giants                   2001     0.17     4.19     4.36   
6    Giants                   1998     0.05     4.19     4.24   
7    Giants                   1999     -.14     4.71     4.57   
8    Giants                   1997     -.22     4.43     4.21   
9    Giants                   1996     -.50     4.72     4.22   
10   Giants                   1995     -.68     4.86     4.18

KronoRed · 10-11-2007, 04:28 PM

I'd rather have Bob Boone back

Falls City Beer · 10-11-2007, 04:31 PM

I like that Dusty gets his players to hate the rest of MLB. That wouldn't be such a bad thing to have around. Still, why waste money on such an insignificant piece of the puzzle.

Unassisted · 10-11-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

However, if there really wasn't interest in Dusty, why would you bring in a guy of his name calibre as your minority candidate?

Maybe he applied for the job? With his experience and slightly over .500 record, it would be tough to justify not interviewing him when Bud's office called the Reds to ask "Why didn't you...?"

Obviously, a lot of people are fearing the fire from the smoke that John Fay saw. I'm content to believe it was just the smoke from Dusty's cigar. The smoke cleared when he stubbed it out in the CVG airport ashtray and flew back home.

10-11-2007, 03:55 PM	#46
westofyou breath Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: PDX Posts: 39,325	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? Dusty Baker is too much of grandstander and excuse maker for my taste, not to mention his tendency to manage like he's in Dodger Stadium in the 70's. The only thing that he sells that others don't is his ability to handle larger then life characters, well in a year (or less) the Reds won't need to worry about that. They'll always have to worry about arms in that park, thus just walk away from the long shot who has no chance of saving those same arms.

10-11-2007, 03:56 PM	#47
Johnny Footstool Churlish Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 13,662	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? I'd be more concerned for Bailey and Cueto than Harang. Arroyo has also shown a propensity to wear down with overuse. But I think this is just idle speculation, anyway. __________________ "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

10-11-2007, 03:58 PM	#49
redsmetz Redsmetz Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winton Place Posts: 10,449	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? Out of curiousity, what do folks think of his record in San Francisco with their pitching staff? He seems to have had some success and I understand that could just be the difference in the park (Candlestick was fairly 'pitcher friendly', no?). Is it possible that he just happened to have some of the most fragile arms ever in Prior and Wood? __________________ “In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field" The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things, that's Rallyonion.com The Baseball Bookstore http://tsc-sales.com/ http://tscsales.blogspot.com/ http://silverscreenbooks.com/

10-11-2007, 03:58 PM	#50
RFS62 Hey Cubs Fans Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: New York Posts: 16,567	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? One thing we know, he wouldn't be cheap. And if they're willing to consider paying his going rate, maybe it's not just lip service that they're considering big name managers. __________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ~ Mark Twain

10-11-2007, 04:02 PM	#51
dougdirt The Boss Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 30,655	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? But how many 'big name' managers are actually good managers? __________________ www.redsminorleagues.com

10-11-2007, 04:05 PM	#53
dougdirt The Boss Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 30,655	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? Courtesy of firedustybaker.com __________________ www.redsminorleagues.com

10-11-2007, 04:08 PM	#54
Ltlabner 2009: Fail Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 7,441	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? Perhaps RZ should fire up the "emails to the front office" campagin in a preemptive protest against Baker? Why wait till he is hired to go sub-critical tatical nuke? Some well thought out, and well written emails/letters/phone calls might perk up some ears at the Reds FO if they are serriously considering Baker. __________________ a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude. I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

10-11-2007, 04:15 PM	#55
lollipopcurve Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Shelburne Falls, MA Posts: 9,477	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? The importance of pitch limits has become more evident over time. I figure Baker would get it by now. Big name, good track record. Folks clamoring for that kind of thing should like the choice, I figure. I'd be on the fence. I like him as a guy who commands respect, but I don't know that he'd handle the young guys well, and the Reds are going to be relying on youth a lot over the next few years. __________________ "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

10-11-2007, 04:21 PM	#57
westofyou breath Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: PDX Posts: 39,325	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? Well, it's pretty relief pitcher heavy with most of the other guys fitting the same pattern, soft stuff and fly balls.. which is great in the Bay Area, especially at Candlestick. But I think his leaning on the BP was his saving grace in SF, and most of the starters were products of the Craig regime, hence why so many burned out to (forkball) However Dusty and the Giants had their best years in ERA In Pac Bell and with the Craig leftovers. Code: SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS SEASON 1993-2002 ERA YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE 1 Giants 2002 0.56 3.55 4.11 2 Giants 2000 0.42 4.21 4.64 3 Giants 1993 0.42 3.63 4.05 4 Giants 1994 0.23 3.99 4.22 5 Giants 2001 0.17 4.19 4.36 6 Giants 1998 0.05 4.19 4.24 7 Giants 1999 -.14 4.71 4.57 8 Giants 1997 -.22 4.43 4.21 9 Giants 1996 -.50 4.72 4.22 10 Giants 1995 -.68 4.86 4.18

10-11-2007, 04:28 PM	#58
KronoRed The Lineups stink. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: West N. Carolina Posts: 55,342	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? I'd rather have Bob Boone back __________________ Go Gators!

10-11-2007, 04:31 PM	#59
Falls City Beer Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 24,098	Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty? I like that Dusty gets his players to hate the rest of MLB. That wouldn't be such a bad thing to have around. Still, why waste money on such an insignificant piece of the puzzle.

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