Tori Hunter Mentioned With The Reds

[Carolina Red]

if the Reds sign Hunter we can easily afford to trade Hamilton and even maybe Griffey?

Why would you trade Hamilton when you have a leftfielder who can't cover much ground sitting there eating up 13 million a year? You trade Dunn to an AL team for pitching then move Hamilton to left. In 2009 play Bruce in LF, Hunter in CF, and Hamilton in RF.

[mroby85]

well we haven't technically picked up the option on dunn yet, so the signing of hunter, may not mean we're losing hamilton.

[FlightRick]

Now, I am not honestly advocating the signing of Torii Hunter @ $15m per year. But there *is* something to be said for looking into higher priced proven players.

Look: Dusty Baker is not a "horrible" manager. But in many ways, I see him as a horribile *fit* for the kind of team Cincinnati has now and could have in the next 2-3 years. To alleviate that dissonance, there's a part of me that says "go shopping, and be willing to part with some younger prospects/players to get the established talent you want."

I bet many around here would cringe at the thought, but this could be an off-season where two out of Encarnacion, Hamilton, Votto, and Bailey are moved. We "showcased" some guys late in the season (Keppinger, Cantu, Hopper) which might have turned them into valuable add-ons to a bigger trade. And if we can mix all that together with getting some salary relief (Freel's gotta be gone, there's just no room for him, at least not unless you end up trading away BOTH of Edwin and Keppinger; and unlike Stanton and Gonzalez, I bet we could probably get value for him), then you might be in a position to take on a stud center fielder or another top-line starter or an established reliever.

It may not be the prefered mode of operation to many, but given our new manager and the circumstances under which he'd be most effective, I think we'd be foolish to totally dismiss the possibility of flipping a 2 or 3 of our younger guys and their potential production if they can net us proven production.

[Stephenk29]

Originally Posted by Carolina Red

Why would you trade Hamilton when you have a leftfielder who can't cover much ground sitting there eating up 13 million a year? You trade Dunn to an AL team for pitching then move Hamilton to left. In 2009 play Bruce in LF, Hunter in CF, and Hamilton in RF.

Excellent point, I didn't even think of that at the time. So what if we don't pick up Dunn's option at all and simply sign Hunter. Not picking up his option makes him much more affordable. Even if we don't sign Hunter, we can go after a CF who is a little bit cheaper. Aaron Rowand anyone?!?!

Then you would have an Outfield of Hamilton, Hunter, Griffey. There is some nice pop in that OF, and you improve a ton defensively.

[jnwohio]

Originally Posted by FlightRick

........ I bet many around here would cringe at the thought, but this could be an off-season where two out of Encarnacion, Hamilton, Votto, and Bailey are moved. We "showcased" some guys late in the season (Keppinger, Cantu, Hopper) which might have turned them into valuable add-ons to a bigger trade. And if we can mix all that together with getting some salary relief (Freel's gotta be gone, there's just no room for him, at least not unless you end up trading away BOTH of Edwin and Keppinger; and unlike Stanton and Gonzalez, I bet we could probably get value for him), then you might be in a position to take on a stud center fielder or another top-line starter or an established reliever.

If you remove Bailey from your list, I could come close to agreeing that 2 of the remaining 3 could be traded; but most likely it will only be one bundled (as suggested) with some other folks.

For his part, Bailey will not be going anywhere unless he would be part of a deal to bring in a legit top end of the rotation guy (at the least a true #2 to move Arroyo down) who the Reds would control contractually for at least 4 years. That is just not likely to happen.

Of the other 3, Votto makes the most sense to move. He is not a 5 tool guy; and 1st basemen who can hit and field the position acceptably are fairly easy to come by. After the Spetember Votto had, he may never be worth more on trade market, particularly given that many had questions about him going into September. So he is a slow start away from plummeting in value.

Dusty has already spoken favorably about EE on a couple of occassions. Maybe it is his number 12, Dusty's old number, or maybe something else but he seems to be a candiate to be one of Dusty's favorites right off. Add to this that he is a right handed bat on a team that is too left handed at the plate.

Hamilton is a legitmate 5 tool guy they now contol for 5 more years. Some question his durability; others fear a relapse. On the other hand he just came off of one of the more phenomenal years in a long time given his total history and should continue get better both in his execution and stamina. I think it takes a blockbuster or near blockbuster to get the Reds to part with him. He does become more expendable if Dunn is locked up beyond this year. Overall even if one viewed Hamilton as trade bait, it might be smarter to hold him another year to grow his value even more. That presumably would also give them time for a look to make sure Jay Bruce is for real.

As far as folks like Stanton or Free or David Ross, the Reds are either going to have to eat some dollars to move them or agree to swap mistakes with somebody in hopes that a change in scenery would revitalize the parties involved.

[AmarilloRed]

I hate to burst this bubble, but Dunn will have his option picked up. The only reason it has not been announced yet is that I imagine management is currently negotiating with Dunn to sign him to a LTC. The owner has said he wants Dunn back, and I don't think Krivsky is going to go against Castellini.

[Carolina Red]

I agree, the Reds would be better off with Hunter than Dunn. Hey, I love the measuring tape homers too but even if we do upgrade the pitching we need to be much better on defense. I see Dunn as a glaring hole in our defense and being such a big man he would be better off in the AL where he could DH. That way he wouldn't be running around out there wearing those knees out (he's already having trouble). I do think it would be better to pick up his option then trade him for whatever we can get.

I would salivate over a 2009 outfield of Hamilton, Hunter, and Bruce.

[kyred14]

Again, 15 million for an aging outfielder whose defensive skills are starting to show decline. Or, a LTC for the 28 year old outfielder who is heading into his prime years. The same 28 year old who is head and shoulders better offensively than the aging, declining outfielder ever has been. Sure, said 28 year old OF isn't very good defensively, but LF defense isn't that important.

Not only do you get much a better offensive production, but the Hamilton/Freel/Hopper trio can give just about the same defense in CF at a third of the cost.

15M for Dunn > 15M for Hunter.

[INRedsFan]

Originally Posted by jnwohio

If you remove Bailey from your list, I could come close to agreeing that 2 of the remaining 3 could be traded; but most likely it will only be one bundled (as suggested) with some other folks.

For his part, Bailey will not be going anywhere unless he would be part of a deal to bring in a legit top end of the rotation guy (at the least a true #2 to move Arroyo down) who the Reds would control contractually for at least 4 years. That is just not likely to happen.

Of the other 3, Votto makes the most sense to move. He is not a 5 tool guy; and 1st basemen who can hit and field the position acceptably are fairly easy to come by. After the Spetember Votto had, he may never be worth more on trade market, particularly given that many had questions about him going into September. So he is a slow start away from plummeting in value.

Dusty has already spoken favorably about EE on a couple of occassions. Maybe it is his number 12, Dusty's old number, or maybe something else but he seems to be a candiate to be one of Dusty's favorites right off. Add to this that he is a right handed bat on a team that is too left handed at the plate.

Hamilton is a legitmate 5 tool guy they now contol for 5 more years. Some question his durability; others fear a relapse. On the other hand he just came off of one of the more phenomenal years in a long time given his total history and should continue get better both in his execution and stamina. I think it takes a blockbuster or near blockbuster to get the Reds to part with him. He does become more expendable if Dunn is locked up beyond this year. Overall even if one viewed Hamilton as trade bait, it might be smarter to hold him another year to grow his value even more. That presumably would also give them time for a look to make sure Jay Bruce is for real.

As far as folks like Stanton or Free or David Ross, the Reds are either going to have to eat some dollars to move them or agree to swap mistakes with somebody in hopes that a change in scenery would revitalize the parties involved.

I agree with your comment that Hamilton is a five tool player. I think the Reds stick with Hamilton. He will have the entire winter to work out to be prepared for next season. I predict a 40 HR season out of Hamilton next season. I think Hamilton is a franchise player. One more good season will put him at the bargaining table for a long term contract.

[Degenerate39]

Originally Posted by Carolina Red

Why would you trade Hamilton when you have a leftfielder who can't cover much ground sitting there eating up 13 million a year? You trade Dunn to an AL team for pitching then move Hamilton to left. In 2009 play Bruce in LF, Hunter in CF, and Hamilton in RF.

You also have a leftfielder who hits 40 home runs a year, drives in 100, scores 100 runs, and walks 100 times. AND he's entering his prime. Hunter on the other hand is on the decline.

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by reds_bengals1

From mlbtraderumors.com:

...Hunter has seemingly been connected to half the teams in baseball; you can see all posts involving him here. Today Gleeman added another club to the mix: the Reds. Gleeman's source talks to Dusty Baker, who has suggested the Reds might be interested. That'd create a definite outfielder surplus in Cincy.

Call me back when we're making moves that would give us a definite surplus of quality pitching.

[ChatterRed]

Griffey to Seattle or Atlanta for a top of the line prospect or a catcher (Seattle - Clemente). Hamilton traded to someone for a #3 pitcher.

Hunter in CF, Bruce in RF.

[Stephenk29]

Originally Posted by ChatterRed

Griffey to Seattle or Atlanta for a top of the line prospect or a catcher (Seattle - Clemente). Hamilton traded to someone for a #3 pitcher.

Hunter in CF, Bruce in RF.

The problem is I'm not sure If we can get that kind of value out of Griffey from anyone. He's old, he gets hurt a lot, and he has a huge contract. Would you trade your rare top catching prospect (Saltalamachia for example) for a guy like Griffey? No way.

[CRedsLarkin11]

I don't like the idea of signing Hunter. A small market franchise needs to stay with players like Josh Hamilton. His ceiling is extremely high, he showed flashes of greatness last year, he's extremely cheap and is locked up for a while. Griffey will continue to bring fans in until Bruce is ready. I'm not the biggest Dunn fan in the world but his overall offensive production is impressive and it would not be an upgrade to have Hunter over Dunn. This team probably is not just a season away from competing, it is going to be a long process and I don't believe adding another large contract for a player that is past his prime will help matters. The outfield is not a concern in my view this offseason. There are much more pressing needs

[I(heart)Freel]

Originally Posted by Stephenk29

The problem is I'm not sure If we can get that kind of value out of Griffey from anyone. He's old, he gets hurt a lot, and he has a huge contract. Would you trade your rare top catching prospect (Saltalamachia for example) for a guy like Griffey? No way.

All depends on how much of his deferred money/contract we're sending. If the Reds socked that money away each year (which reports said they did), then just the salary for him for next year isn't that bad for a team that takes him on.

They also get the benefit of the chase for #600. And if a deal is made sooner than later, that team can use that in marketing materials for 2008 season tickets etc.

All very interesting. Critical juncture for the Redlegs.