Cliff Lee Anyone? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Krusty · 12-05-2007, 09:09 AM

I'm surprise no one has really brought this guy's name up more often. This is the perfect case of buying a guy at a rock bottom price (see Brandon Phillips). Look at his stats from 2004 to 2006 season and you'll see that he has won 14, 18 and 14 games. Plus, he pitched over 200 innings in 2005 & 2006 season.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/sta...layerID=424324

So does one bad season make a pitcher's career? If not, then if I'm Krivsky I'm calling the Tribe and see what the Indians might need.

pahster · 12-05-2007, 09:34 AM

He was pretty good in 2005 and in 52 innings in 2003. Looks pretty mediocre other than that. If he can be had for cheap, why not? He could fill out the back of the rotation. Or he could continue to be terrible.

REDREAD · 12-05-2007, 10:00 AM

Krusty,

I think he'd be the perfect target for the Reds. I've been lobbying for him on a couple other threads.

He's excess baggage to the Indians, and thus might be easier to pry away than some other starters.

A lot of upside, and even if he doesn't rebound, he's better than anything else we have for the back of the rotation.

Benihana · 12-05-2007, 10:04 AM

what would he cost in terms of talent?

I wouldn't be surprised if Shaprio is wary of dealing with Wayne after the Phillips debacle

Krusty · 12-05-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benihana

what would he cost in terms of talent?

I wouldn't be surprised if Shaprio is wary of dealing with Wayne after the Phillips debacle

Basically Phillips wore out his welcome in Cleveland. Perfect case of a change of scenery would do him good. Same thing could apply to Cliff Lee.

RedsManRick · 12-05-2007, 10:21 AM

I see a flyball pitcher with mediocre K and BB rates. What's the draw?

REDREAD · 12-05-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I see a flyball pitcher with mediocre K and BB rates. What's the draw?

Cheap
Has had success, might rebound
Moving to NL might suit him (like it did for Lilly)
Might not cost excessive talent in trade
He's available.
He'd instantly be our #3

Lee isn't Santana, but he'd be a nice upgrade to our staff.
Consider that right now, Homer is penciled in as our #4, and we don't even have a body for our #5.

If Wayne doesn't add a credible starting pitcher this winter, he should be fired. By credible, I mean a guy that has a reasonable chance of being a .500 pitcher or better.

Benihana · 12-05-2007, 12:05 PM

still no one has answered my question- what do you think the Reds would have to give up to get Cliff Lee?

flyer85 · 12-05-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benihana

still no one has answered my question- what do you think the Reds would have to give up to get Cliff Lee?

not sure, Cleveland doesn't have huge holes, their needs are minor.

Falls City Beer · 12-05-2007, 12:25 PM

I have no interest in Lee. None at all.

RedlegJake · 12-05-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I have no interest in Lee. None at all.

Me either. Cliff Lee is the anti-GAB type pitcher.

Patrick Bateman · 12-05-2007, 01:13 PM

I heard the Cardinals were interested in Lee. That made me happy. If I hear the same thing about the Reds, that will make me equally unhappy.

At best, Lee is right now a 5th starter. At worst, he's in Milton territory right now. Considering that he's being paid guaranteed cash, this is an awful risk. At one point he was an acceptable pitcher, but he hasn't been anywhere close the last few years.

Blitz Dorsey · 12-05-2007, 01:22 PM

People say they want pitching, then they poo-pooh every name that is thrown out there. If we could get Cliff Lee for somewhat cheap (and I have no idea what that is) then I think you do it. It would improve the rotation immediately (and it would be nice having at least one lefty in the rotation IMO). He's not great, but it's the little moves like that which will make or break the Reds this offseason. They will need to make a couple moves that look like nothing (like trading for someone like Lee) but turn out to be gold if we are really going to be contenders in '08.

Patrick Bateman · 12-05-2007, 01:23 PM

We want good pitching. Cliff is a pitcher, but he does nothing to solve the problem of quality pitching.

RedlegJake · 12-05-2007, 01:31 PM

I just don't think Lee is successul at GAB with this defense - he doesn't miss bats, he's a flyball pitcher, he walks too many. As a guy who is simply run out there to avoid rushing Cueto or Maloney, okay. As a starter who solidifies the backend of the rotation for a title run I don't think he's the guy. As 5th starter material IF the Reds can also land a decent #2-3 starter okay. Cliff Lee instead of Wells orTomko, okay.

The problem with all the names we're seeing that are being panned is simply that none of them are much good.

12-05-2007, 09:09 AM	#1
Krusty Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Williamsport, PA Posts: 12,311	Cliff Lee Anyone? I'm surprise no one has really brought this guy's name up more often. This is the perfect case of buying a guy at a rock bottom price (see Brandon Phillips). Look at his stats from 2004 to 2006 season and you'll see that he has won 14, 18 and 14 games. Plus, he pitched over 200 innings in 2005 & 2006 season. http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/sta...layerID=424324 So does one bad season make a pitcher's career? If not, then if I'm Krivsky I'm calling the Tribe and see what the Indians might need. __________________ If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

12-05-2007, 10:21 AM	#6
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,921	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? I see a flyball pitcher with mediocre K and BB rates. What's the draw? __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

12-05-2007, 12:05 PM	#8
Benihana Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 8,437	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? still no one has answered my question- what do you think the Reds would have to give up to get Cliff Lee? __________________ Go BLUE!!!

12-05-2007, 12:25 PM	#10
Falls City Beer Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 24,098	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? I have no interest in Lee. None at all.

12-05-2007, 01:13 PM	#12
Patrick Bateman One and a half men Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 5,464	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? I heard the Cardinals were interested in Lee. That made me happy. If I hear the same thing about the Reds, that will make me equally unhappy. At best, Lee is right now a 5th starter. At worst, he's in Milton territory right now. Considering that he's being paid guaranteed cash, this is an awful risk. At one point he was an acceptable pitcher, but he hasn't been anywhere close the last few years.

12-05-2007, 09:34 AM	#2
pahster Something clever Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Carrboro, NC Posts: 1,898	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? He was pretty good in 2005 and in 52 innings in 2003. Looks pretty mediocre other than that. If he can be had for cheap, why not? He could fill out the back of the rotation. Or he could continue to be terrible.

12-05-2007, 10:00 AM	#3
REDREAD Where's my chair? Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 19,807	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? Krusty, I think he'd be the perfect target for the Reds. I've been lobbying for him on a couple other threads. He's excess baggage to the Indians, and thus might be easier to pry away than some other starters. A lot of upside, and even if he doesn't rebound, he's better than anything else we have for the back of the rotation. __________________ Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2012 AND 2013! Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

12-05-2007, 10:04 AM	#4
Benihana Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 8,437	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? what would he cost in terms of talent? I wouldn't be surprised if Shaprio is wary of dealing with Wayne after the Phillips debacle __________________ Go BLUE!!!

12-05-2007, 01:22 PM	#13
Blitz Dorsey Party like it's 1990 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,328	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? People say they want pitching, then they poo-pooh every name that is thrown out there. If we could get Cliff Lee for somewhat cheap (and I have no idea what that is) then I think you do it. It would improve the rotation immediately (and it would be nice having at least one lefty in the rotation IMO). He's not great, but it's the little moves like that which will make or break the Reds this offseason. They will need to make a couple moves that look like nothing (like trading for someone like Lee) but turn out to be gold if we are really going to be contenders in '08.

12-05-2007, 01:23 PM	#14
Patrick Bateman One and a half men Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 5,464	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? We want good pitching. Cliff is a pitcher, but he does nothing to solve the problem of quality pitching.

12-05-2007, 01:31 PM	#15
RedlegJake Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Kansas City, Mo Posts: 3,869	Re: Cliff Lee Anyone? I just don't think Lee is successul at GAB with this defense - he doesn't miss bats, he's a flyball pitcher, he walks too many. As a guy who is simply run out there to avoid rushing Cueto or Maloney, okay. As a starter who solidifies the backend of the rotation for a title run I don't think he's the guy. As 5th starter material IF the Reds can also land a decent #2-3 starter okay. Cliff Lee instead of Wells orTomko, okay. The problem with all the names we're seeing that are being panned is simply that none of them are much good.

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