Here we go...Haren/D'backs get Haren

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I don't want to deal Bailey and Cueto. I'd let Beane pick one of them, and add Votto and a lesser prospect. If he demands both, I go back to MacPhail and remind him that the Dodgers, with the reported signing of Kuroda, look to now be out of the bidding for Bedard.

I'm guessing there are still a number of teams in the running for Bedard. If only the Dodgers, Mariners, and Reds were in the running, this deal would likely be done.

[Joseph]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Does Homer/Votto/someone else work for you?

I wouldn't lead with that offer, but I've got more like of Homer than most here I believe.

My initial offer would be Hammy/Cueto/suspect.

I'd be willing to go up to Homer/Hammy/suspect next.

Then Homer/Votto/suspect.

By suspect I'm think Lecure, Pelland, Watson....someone not top 10 from our list since they are already getting two of our top 10 with Homer and Votto being most mentioned.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

They can't afford not to.

The Reds will be lucky if either Bailey or Cueto develops into the pitcher that Haren is today (or Bedard, for that matter).



I'd hate for Bailey and Cueto to flame out (or worse, develop into nothing more than mediocre pitchers) and leave the Reds wondering what might have been.

You have to take risks sometimes. I think Haren is a good gamble.

The Cardinals thought the same thing about Mulder. I can't see both Bailey AND Cueto for Haren. One sure, but not both.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by TRF

The Cardinals thought the same thing about Mulder. I can't see both Bailey AND Cueto for Haren. One sure, but not both.

And the Braves thought he same thing about Hudson.

The Reds thought it was all-important to keep Pokey Reese instead of trading him for Griffey.

Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong.

I don't *want* to deal Bailey and Cueto, either. But what I do want is the Reds to acquire Dan Haren for three years at a cheap salary. If it takes both Bailey and Cueto to make that happen, I'd be willing to do that.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

This is my theory. And my concern. Bailey and Votto have more cachet in the Reds' eyes than in the eyes of other GMs, particularly a guy like Beane, who knows what real talent is.

I think they have more "cachet" in the eyes of GMs than you do. And Beane can leap tall buildings in a single bound, too

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by Joseph

Just so its clear and asked early, he's in the same situation as Bronson, ie was not eligible for free agency when he signed his LTC and can NOT opt out, correct?

I would like to get Haren. Hamilton and Cueto work for me.

I believe it's a function of service time. I think if you have 6 years of service time when traded, and you have a multiyear contract you can opt out at the end of the season.. That's the situation Neagle was in.

Now, I think it's service time when traded, not when the contract is signed. But I could be wrong.

Also, I seem to remember reading something about baseball tweaking that rule since Neagle used it as leverage against the REds, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Kc61]

I wonder if the Reds are clever enough to have planted the Haren story to get the Orioles to get going on Bedard. I still think the Reds would prefer the lefty starter to another righty.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Kc61

I wonder if the Reds are clever enough to have planted the Haren story to get the Orioles to get going on Bedard. I still think the Reds would prefer the lefty starter to another righty.

That would be crafty. I would offer both teams Bailey, Votto, and a lesser prospect, and see which one bites first. Let them get into a "bidding war" for once. Heck, get Tampa involved too. If neither takes the bait, you can always come back to the table. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by Kc61

I wonder if the Reds are clever enough to have planted the Haren story to get the Orioles to get going on Bedard. I still think the Reds would prefer the lefty starter to another righty.

I'm sure they would.

I'd like to have Bedard, too, and I'd spend quite a bit to get him. But I'd break the bank for Haren.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I don't want to deal Bailey and Cueto. I'd let Beane pick one of them, and add Votto and a lesser prospect. .

Interesting.. not saying you are wrong,
but I'd rather give up Ceuto than Votto.
I think some people are underestimating Votto's
value to the team next year. Votto gives us
the potential for the most productive 1b we've
had in a long time.

Ceuto is a nice prospect and may ultimately
be a better player, but in terms of risk.. it's
a lot riskier that he'll be an average or better
performer (IMO, of course).

I'd love to see a stud pitcher come out of our
farm system, but I'd play the odds and keep Votto
before Ceuto. Votto is ready now, and we need "now"
help for 2008.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Benihana

That would be crafty. I would offer both teams Bailey, Votto, and a lesser prospect, and see which one bites first. Let them get into a "bidding war" for once.

My guess is that the Reds' offer might be something like this:

1. You don't get Bruce.

2. You get Bailey or Cueto, your choice.

3. You get Hamilton or Votto, your choice.

4. You get any other prospect in the org (excluding Bruce and excluding those you don't choose from 1 and 2).

5. You get Ryan Freel (way of limiting salary damage).

[corkedbat]

I'd be willing to go as much Hamilton/Votto, Bailey/Cueto and any two other players in the farm system not named Bruce for Bedard, Haren or Kazmir basically let the other GM roll their own. If I do break down and include Bruce, it is only with a couple of other lesser prospects and I have more of a say in who they are.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Kc61

My guess is that the Reds' offer might be something like this:

1. You don't get Bruce.

2. You get Bailey or Cueto, your choice.

3. You get Hamilton or Votto, your choice.

4. You get any other prospect in the org (excluding Bruce and excluding those you don't choose from 1 and 2).

5. You get Ryan Freel (way of limiting salary damage).

I hope you're right. Although I like letting MacPhail choose instead of Beane.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by corkedbat

I'd be willing to go as much Hamilton/Votto, Bailey/Cueto and any two other players in the farm system not named Bruce for Bedard, Haren or Kazmir.

Can the Reds trade Todd Frazier? He was just drafted last year and I thought there is a restriction on trading a guy just drafted. (Of course, he could be a PTBL). He might be someone the other team would want.

Or if the other team wants guys more ready for prime time, Maloney and Roenicke could be targets.

My guess is that these names could be raised.

[MartyFan]

I would go Dunn, Bailey and Freel for Haren...like some other posters on here I would love to see the farm system produce a stud...but the track record ain't in our favor and Haren is more than what the doctor ordered for the needs of this team...with the offer above we keep Votto, Cueto and Bruce...that is assuming that the A's would have reasonable interest in Dunn if they are reportedly interested in Bonds.