Redszone Community Prospect Vote #18

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by kheidg-

If more people used that same logic I don't know why Roenicke is ranked our #7 best prospect

Roenicke projects a little better than Viola or Pelland at the same time though.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

Solid control (career 2.7 BB/9)? Considered to have quite a bit of upside before injury problems (was ranked n. 7 Nationals prospect by BA)?

That first part is fair but he's still seems to be giving up too many hits for my liking, although I am not giving up on him just yet, just think Viola, Pelland and Rosales are clearly better bets at this point.

The 2nd part doesn't exactly say a whole lot, they had about 2 or 3 prospects worth even considering above A ball last year. That said I still like him just beginning to get on the fence about him.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

DT and PV are 5+ votes off. I say leave them out and just do two. A sprint to 20 votes! Or whatever the system is.

As far as not solving anything, we are talking about the #18 and 19 prospects. It shouldn't be a big deal if someone wins by one point. Bigger things have been decided by lesser margins (like my fantasy team that couldn't get a lousy 6 points from plaxico or berrian!!! They got 5! And I lost by 1 point, and lost out on $200/$350) Sorry.

On the runoff I think Pedro is on par with these 2 so I would like to see him in that runoff. Again I think Viola, Rosales and Pelland are all close and Thompson isn't but that's just my opinion.

Sorry to hear about that Fantasy loss though. I am in 3 Championship games this coming weekend though and it's about time. I am the Dan Marino of Fantasy Football, been playing since the early nineties and have always been a dominant scorer in the regular season but get to the playoffs and choke with the exception of 2 championships I co-GM'ed. So I finally decided to take another approach to the regular season the last few years and here I am on the doorstep of greatness.

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by kheidg-

If more people used that same logic I don't know why Roenicke is ranked our #7 best prospect

I don't know either...

[Danny Serafini]

Roenicke is quickly becoming one of the board's most overrated prospects. He's not in that rarefied Milton Loo territory, but he's pretty far up the list.

[Blue]

Well, I wouldn't have put him that high, but the board is in good company. Baseball America liked him well enough to rank him 9th.

[RedsManRick]

What's interesting to me, and what is frustrating about these kind of lists, is that they have the appearance of being interval. That somehow the difference between 7 and 12 is the same as the difference between 2 and 7. Or worse, the difference between 5 and 20 versus 25 and 40. In reality, I've got say I'm more comfortable with something like the Sickels approach, with tiers instead of the interval one vs. another.

A: Bruce
A-: Cueto, Votto
B+: Bailey, Frazier
B: Maloney, Moreseco
B-: Stubbs, Lotzkar, Dorn
C+: Burton, Pelland, Viola, Wood, Roenicke, Carroll, Valaika, Rosales, Watson, Waring

You can see the pyramid of talent so much more clearly. I feel like we could do this again tomorrow and our 8 through 20 could be completely backwards.

[AmarilloRed]

There might be an obvious answer to this question but I can't see it. Assuming Votto is rated so highly, why is everyone so eager to trade him? I understand that first baseman are easier prospects to replace than other positions, but it has been years since the Reds developed a good one. I would have to think Tony Perez was the last good one we had. There really is no way of telling when we will develop an equally talented prospect, and for that reason I am not eager to trade Joey Votto.

[gedred69]

Originally Posted by AmarilloRed

There might be an obvious answer to this question but I can't see it. Assuming Votto is rated so highly, why is everyone so eager to trade him? I understand that first baseman are easier prospects to replace than other positions, but it has been years since the Reds developed a good one. I would have to think Tony Perez was the last good one we had. There really is no way of telling when we will develop an equally talented prospect, and for that reason I am not eager to trade Joey Votto.

Agreed. Votto tore up the minors everywhere he played, the only exception being High A Potomac, when O'Brien mandated all minor leaguers take the 1st pitch. Votto has been quoted as saying that really screwed up his approach to hitting. At the very least, the Reds need to see what he can do, he appointed himself very well in his Sept. cameo. Hell, he threatened to win the quadruple crown at Chattanooga!

[kheidg-]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Roenicke projects a little better than Viola or Pelland at the same time though.

I don't see how this is possible. Maybe because he is more inexperienced as an actual pitcher.

What I see that gives the argument of Pelland over Roenicke, is Pelland is younger (23 vs. 24), has pitched 4 times as many innings since being converted to a reliever vs. Roenicke converted from a position player, and pitched impressively at AA and AAA last season vs. Roenicke only 19 innings at AA.

I am not saying Roenicke will not be good and I agree with the point that he is just recently converted, but him being #7 and Pelland barely getting a sniff at #18 is flat out ridiculous.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by kheidg-

I don't see how this is possible. Maybe because he is more inexperienced as an actual pitcher.

What I see that gives the argument of Pelland over Roenicke, is Pelland is younger (23 vs. 24), has pitched 4 times as many innings since being converted to a reliever vs. Roenicke converted from a position player, and pitched impressively at AA and AAA last season vs. Roenicke only 19 innings at AA.

I am not saying Roenicke will not be good and I agree with the point that he is just recently converted, but him being #7 and Pelland barely getting a sniff at #18 is flat out ridiculous.

Well Roenicke was not really a pitcher in college, so you are right about the inexperience. He also throws harder and has a better offspeed pitch than Pelland does. I think Roenicke at #7 is a little high, but not overly high, but Pelland at seems to be heading for where he should be. Not a slight on Pelland. In other systems he would be much higher than he currently is. Just going by say John Sickels grading scale, Pelland would have been top 10 in several systems.

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by AmarilloRed

There might be an obvious answer to this question but I can't see it. Assuming Votto is rated so highly, why is everyone so eager to trade him? I understand that first baseman are easier prospects to replace than other positions, but it has been years since the Reds developed a good one. I would have to think Tony Perez was the last good one we had. There really is no way of telling when we will develop an equally talented prospect, and for that reason I am not eager to trade Joey Votto.

Everyone should take this poll for what it is. (Speculation & Hope)

I wouldn't be surpised if the Reds drafted or traded for my old butt, that I wouldn't show up in this poll. ( I'll soon be 54 years friggin old)


Tony Perez spent the bulk of his time in the minors as a middle infielder. We never know for sure.. do we?

[stormyfan25]

Here is why Roenicke is overrated. The kid has only pitched for a little under 2 years. He did very well in high A but once the second half of the year came along he couldnt stay healthy. Yes he throws smoke, yes he has a nasty knuckle curve. But will the kid be able to stay healthy???? He struggled to do so in his first full year having to miss most of the second half and then missed the entire AZFL. He struggled when he had to go back to back days out of the pen. Dont you think that you need a reliever that can be a horse for you. Look at Weathers for the Reds. The guys has below average stuff but he can pitch! and he get in a TON of games. Thats what i want in a reliever. I want a work horse.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by stormyfan25

Here is why Roenicke is overrated. The kid has only pitched for a little under 2 years. He did very well in high A but once the second half of the year came along he couldnt stay healthy. Yes he throws smoke, yes he has a nasty knuckle curve. But will the kid be able to stay healthy???? He struggled to do so in his first full year having to miss most of the second half and then missed the entire AZFL. He struggled when he had to go back to back days out of the pen. Dont you think that you need a reliever that can be a horse for you. Look at Weathers for the Reds. The guys has below average stuff but he can pitch! and he get in a TON of games. Thats what i want in a reliever. I want a work horse.

Roenicke throws a knuckle curve? First I have heard of that. Are you confusing him with Sean Watson a bit (only guy that throws a true knuckle curve that I know of who is a flame thrower the Reds have). As far as not staying healthy.... so long as his injuries aren't arm related (which they haven't been), then its not a big deal. As for pitching back to back days, in the minors especially, that is something that isn't worth looking at.

[camisadelgolf]

I'm not trying to rile any feathers, but I think stormyfan25 may be a troll.