Derrick Lutz

[princeton]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Yeah, lets worry about what instructors couldn't teach in 2001 or 2002 who aren't with the club anymore.

so far, there's no reason to think that the new Yugo workers won't produce more Yugos, as all of the other "new" Yugo workers have done for 20 freaking years

[dougdirt]

Still the worst analogy I have ever read.

To think that something 5-10-15-20 'freaking' years ago as you would say, has anything to do with the development of players today is crazy talk. No one is in place from that long ago. Different owner, different GM, different directors, different instructors and different coaches. They were the same uniforms, but thats about it.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by princeton

so far, there's no reason to think that the new Yugo workers won't produce more Yugos, as all of the other "new" Yugo workers have done for 20 freaking years

This is such a bad metaphor. It's not just new workers. It's new machinery. It's new materials. It's new supervisors. It's new design. In other words, the only thing that's the same is the name on the front of the factory. Everything else is different.

Don't get me wrong, the cars might continue to be crap for legitimate reasons, but this inaccurate analogy is is just lazy thinking. "Sure, everything has completely turned over, but if I completely ignore that reality and associate the franchise with a bad car company, I can be pessimistic without having to actually make supporting arguments."

However these prospects turn out, that will be a result of the particulars of the current prospects, current instructors, current methods, and current decisions. It will have nothing to do with the failures of past prospects. Period. Unless of course you'd like to actually make the argument that some magic karmic energy is at play... In that case, let's just go root for somebody else because the Reds are doomed.

[princeton]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

However these prospects turn out, that will be a result of the particulars of the current prospects, current instructors, current methods, and current decisions. It will have nothing to do with the failures of past prospects. Period.

we slowly released half of the people and hired cheap replacements lacking good track records. As we've done for 20 freaking years.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by princeton

we slowly released half of the people and hired cheap replacements lacking good track records. As we've done for 20 freaking years.

Finally a salient point. I'm not trying to be obtuse. There are legitimate gripes to be made, surely. Let's make them instead of relying on a weak metaphor.

So what do our evaluators/instructors/coaches/etc. do poorly? I'm curious.

[princeton]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I'm not trying to be obtuse.

it takes more than just changes to make a productive system. if anything, changes can cause a real mess

the Reds changed SDs, and THAT seems to be paying off. Things have obviously improved on the scouting end, even if the first round has been unimpressive so far.

But the developmental people have generally been the same, or newer unproven people. the situation called for at least one top person with a successful track record. The Reds MIGHT get out of this OK, but until you see what they actually produce, you just won't know. Right now, we're beta-testing this new system, which is probably pretty close to the old system.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by princeton

it takes more than just changes to make a productive system. if anything, changes can cause a real mess

the Reds changed SDs, and THAT seems to be paying off. Things have obviously improved on the scouting end, even if the first round has been unimpressive so far.

But the developmental people have generally been the same, or newer unproven people. the situation called for at least one top person with a successful track record. The Reds MIGHT get out of this OK, but until you see what they actually produce, you just won't know. Right now, we're beta-testing this new system, which is probably pretty close to the old system.

I gotta agree with this, the FO keeps hiring guys who are either unproven or have proven that they know little. Exhibit A: Rookie League pitching coach Tom Browning.

[Scrap Irony]

Johnny Cueto learned a circle change two years ago in Spring Training. From a Red employee. (Mario Soto, if memory serves.)

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Johnny Cueto learned a circle change two years ago in Spring Training. From a Red employee. (Mario Soto, if memory serves.)

Some aren't too bad, but few if any are excellent and a few are downright laughable. Soto would be one that seems to be getting results when he helps so I would have to consider him solid (at least in teaching the change-up).