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#1 | |
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He has the Evil Eye!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: south of the border
Posts: 23,858
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Article on Bochy's managing
from Sheehan at BP
Quote:
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What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand |
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#2 |
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Stat Wanker Hodiernus
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 14,915
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
But what's his Won-Loss record as a manager and do his players like him? I mean, seriously, let's focus on things that matter.
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Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. |
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#3 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Shelburne Falls, MA
Posts: 9,480
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
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Would a scribe, stat geek or table game dork (Sheehan's language) be able to make 100% correct strategic in-game decisions all the time? Highly doubtful. Were a scribe, stat geek or table game dork able to make 100% correct strategic in-game decisions all the time, would this make him or her (or it, the software) qualified to manage, given no professional on-field experience? Under no circumstances. Mistakes happen. Leave it to vultures/green flies like Joe Sheehan to alight on them when they do.
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"Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini Last edited by lollipopcurve; 04-09-2008 at 02:39 PM. |
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#4 |
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Yay!
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Middletown, Ohio
Posts: 7,260
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
Here's the real problem wih the Giants... I've never even heard of any of the players involved in this scenario.
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When all is said and done more is said than done. |
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#5 |
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Let's ride
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Colorado's eastern plains
Posts: 11,232
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
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#6 | |
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Stat Wanker Hodiernus
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 14,915
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
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This wasn't a going against the percentages sort of thing that we often complain about. This was just stupidity. I don't know of too many guys in that position in other industries who could make similar mistakes repeatedly with no reprocussion. Imagine if that was a error in a contract that went out and they lost a deal over it. You win some and you lose some, sure. But do you think the CEO would just shrug his shoulders? And your argument makes no sense. Nobody (in this thread) is saying that the ability to make strategic choices correctly makes you qualified to be a manager. Obviously there are other qualifications. However, an inability to make the strategic choices correctly should disqualify you. And yet it doesn't... But, to be fair, I recognize nobody's perfect. Before Sheehan gets too high on his horse, he should posit some alternatives. Who's out there who is otherwise qualified but doesn't make those sorts of errors. I assume they exist, but I certainly couldn't point to any who don't already have a job. (Davey Johnson doesn't want one...)
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Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-09-2008 at 02:43 PM. |
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#7 |
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Waitin til next year
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 9,616
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
I am confused by this article, mainly because I have never of any of the players involved. So let me get this straight. The Bochy makes a defensive substitution with a lead in the game. The Giants blow the lead and then have a runner on second with two outs. Bochy, in the eyes of the author, pinch hits for the wrong player. The pinch hitter is intentionally walked and an inferior hitter is forced to hit with runners on 1st and 2nd with two outs in the bottom of the ninth.
Is this truely a poor tactical decision or this a columnist with a bias against Bochy? |
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#8 | |
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Stat Wanker Hodiernus
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 14,915
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
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Yes, Joe Sheehan jumped on him with both feet, as he is want to do. That doesn't make Bochy's move any less stupid.
__________________
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. |
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#9 |
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Waitin til next year
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 9,616
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
Well let me put it this way. That may have been the worst baseball article I have ever read. Outside of the bay area it is completly irrelivant because he does not disclose that he wasted his best pinch hitter in a walk situation. Nor does he bring up anything about the offensive merits about the hitters he pinch hit for or the one who eventually had the key at bat.
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#10 | |
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breath
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: PDX
Posts: 39,353
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
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I got to find a good book. As for Bruce not being perfect... let me know when the perfect manager shows up.. I won't hold my breath. |
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#11 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Shelburne Falls, MA
Posts: 9,480
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
Quote:
__________________
"Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini |
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#12 | |
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Stat Wanker Hodiernus
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 14,915
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
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The hitter, Rajai Davis: .270/.353/.363 in the majors (204 AB) .305/.375/.407 in the minors The pinch hitter, Fred Lewis .298/.379/.417, in the majors (168 AB) .282/.381/.420, in the minors The guy on deck, Brian Bocock .241/.311/.334, in the minors (never above A+) The game is tied with the winning run on second base and first base open, as Joe quite clearly discloses. If you don't know that this situation begs for a walk to get to a weaker hitter, I promise you that you aren't a baseball prospectus subscriber. Further, this wasn't in a mass media publication like ESPN or Yahoo. It was on a pay-for-content baseball analysis site where an author has a reasonable assumption that his audience doesn't need their hand held on who the good and bad players are. Brian Bocock's presence on the Giants roster has been a running point of critique. Joe is preaching to the choir here, he knows it, and the article was written accordingly.
__________________
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. |
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#13 |
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breath
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: PDX
Posts: 39,353
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
BTW not every battle in a baseball season was and is about that game or that at bat. With a 40 year old SS with bad wheels and a pretty terrible team the Giants should find out of the A Ball SS can pull his weight, they'll probably need him more than that win last night in the long run.
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#14 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Shelburne Falls, MA
Posts: 9,480
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
Quote:
__________________
"Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini |
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#15 | |
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Stat Wanker Hodiernus
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 14,915
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Re: Article on Bochy's managing
Quote:
Though I really doubt Bochy was hoping they'd walk the pinch hitter so that Bocock could get that AB...
__________________
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-09-2008 at 04:18 PM. |
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