Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

[medford]

I heard Bob C fired the Kriv-dog b/c he refused to sign Coombs to a long term deal.

Seriously, I'm 50-50 on this. I like a lot of things that Krivsky did. The Farm system seems to be much more stable, and while he doesn't get full credit for the Cueto's, Votto's, Bruces & Bailey's in the sytem, he does get credit for some or most of their development. He's been the opposite of Jimbo. If JimBo was here, Bailey would have been in the majors out of the gate last season, and probably would have made his debut a season before. Krivsky has proven to be patient w/ the young talent in the system, forcing them to remain on the same level. While he may be overpatient at times (see Bruce), I think in the long run its far better than the way Leatherpants rushed the next best thing up the big leagues hoping to make a big splash.

Krivsky also gets high marks for picking up Hamilton, Phillips and yes, even Ross. While Ross is certainly not the greatest catcher/hitter around, given the general dearth of catching in the big leagues, he was able to acquire at least min. production out of Ross for basically nothing. I think the production Ross has given the Reds (or some may say the lack there of) has been far greater to the organization than what the cost would have been to pick up a Salty or Johny Estrada or other "name" catcher that has moved around the last few seasons.

On the negative side, its been widely reported how Krivsky rubbed people the wrong way. Even worse was the repeated bad contracts to guys like Stanton & Castro. For a team like the Reds, you have to make every single buget dollar work for you. You can't afford to continually eat the contracts of a Milton, or Belisle or Stanton or Castro. All that does is take away the amount of money lying around to extend out an Adam Dunn long term.

I see a lot of worry about Jocketty trading away the farm to help the big league team. Somebody fill me in, Did Jocketty do a lot of that in St Louis? I know there were some trades, but they also put a pretty darn good team on the field for several seasons in a row. The Reds have not had a darn good team since 2000.

Once Jocketty came here, I thought it would pretty much take a playoff type season for Krivsky to return next season. I'm surprised it happened this early; there must have been a straw that broke Bob C's back. Perhaps a combination of things that convinced him it was time to make a move before this season is lost.

[nate]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

I said it a short while back. I think WK would have value in a player development type role, but the overarching GM position may have been too much for him.

Yep.

I never thought WK was a great GM, just average. Organizationally, when Wayne came in, the Reds were in a real bad way. He was great at fixing some things (minor league development and finding some good young players in creative ways) but not so great at others (the bullpen). I think it would've taken a way above average GM to have made things significantly better in the same amount of time.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Puffy

Why again exactly?

It sure wasn't his drafts - Krivsky did take talent that was already within the system and put policies and procedures in place that streamlined things and allowed for development but who is to say that those things are going anywhere?

Again, his two first round picks have been Stubbs and Merasco (sp?) - his other picks are at low levels and there is no guarantee how they'll end up, but I can't say I'm too sorry that he won't be handing the number 7 overall pick this year.

This was my 2nd thought after I figured Walt would be sending some youngsters out of town.

IMO, Wayne's drafts in the 1st round have been Bengals-esque, aka horrible, and almost to the point of exactly what the organization didn't need. I wasn't looking forward to a 3rd consecutive wasted 1st round draft pick.

The jury's still out on Mesoraco, but Stubbs most likely will be a bust, unless he has a huge rebound year this year.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

This leads me to believe that there was some personal situation, a straw-that-broke-the-camels-back, sort of moment in the last 36 hours.

Maybe it was the fact that this board has been somewhat dead with the locking of the gamethreads.

Thanks for looking out for us, Bob.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by MWM

I don't like it. I've been very lukewarm on Krivsky, but I don't like what this signals about the organization. What have they learned early inthe season that they didn't know before it started. It tells me this organziation doesn't really know what it's doing. This makes little sense to me unless there's something there we just don't know about.

It depends on what the goal of the franchise is.
It appears that the goal now is to win.

The farm system is healthy now, but apparently Cast's goal isn't to have the best farm system in baseball. And in all fairness, most of the credit for the farm strength goes to Dan O. Wayne has done very little to boost the farm compared to what DanO did. I'm not sure Wayne's drafts were much better than Bowdens, although it is too early to tell.

The problem the Reds face is that they have a small window with Dunn-Harang-Arroyo-Jr. Their core of veteran talent is getting closer to the expiration date each day. Now, it is not all bleak with the young talent this team has, but the problem the Reds have faced since the end of the 1999 season has been the inability to consistently replace talent lost to attrition.

For example, they've never been able to replace LaRue or Cameron. Votto has finally arrived to fill 1b, but there was a void there for a long time.
Hopefully EdE finally fills the role at 3b, which has been a weakness since 2003. The bullpen has been awful since 2003.
Wayne has filled some holes, but the problem is that you can't rely on the farm system and bottom feeding to fill every hole. Good trades need to be made. For the most part, Wayne was not good at making trades.
For the most part, Wayne was horrible at figuring out who to commit longterm money too. His only real "hits" were Harang and Dunn.. the two total no brainers. Arroyo might be a hit. Phillips might be a hit (Both those two are risks, but acceptable).. Freel, AGon, Castro, Cormier, Staton horrible. The non-trade of Weathers last year was a big mistake.

[15fan]

21 games in?

There's clearly something behind the scenes.

Reminds me of firing Tony Perez 44 games into 1993.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

This leads me to believe that there was some personal situation, a straw-that-broke-the-camels-back, sort of moment in the last 36 hours.

3 bad catchers on the 25 man roster?

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by 15fan

21 games in?

There's clearly something behind the scenes.

Reminds me of firing Tony Perez 44 games into 1993.

Bing Devine

[Wheelhouse]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

If the plan is to win in 2008, then we're not even remotely close.

If the plan is to win in 2009, there's still time to make that happen.

Disagree. With the rotation the Reds have, the improved bullpen, and the depth in the minors, the Reds can win this year.

[coachw513]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Man, I knew there'd be hell to pay after letting Castro go.

Without finishing everyone's thoughts...that's the best line of the day...

Moves like this reak of panic, of a lack of direction...grasping at straws...remember the firing of Tony Perez...not that these are similar, but in some ways they "feel" similar...

I personally was pleased with the overall upturn of the franchise and felt WK was accumulating many more +'s than -'s on the ledger...I don't know exactly what WK could do about many of the roster issues...we have 2 guys in Griffey and Dunn that both need to be here right now, though we really only have use for 1...a talent base of LH hitters doesn't mean dealing away Votto or Bruce...

Now much of the relief corp stands squarely in Kriv's corner...some poor decisons...but if Bray is healthy and he and Thompson develop to potential, than even the dreaded "trade" isn't something that should poison him...

As for the "sunk costs" contracts of folks like Castro???...to me, this had to be the issue...obviously, Jock must have Cast's ear and has convinced him that these are mistakes too critical to ignore...that the money spent for folks like Stanton, Castro, Freel, Hatteburg (maybe), Patterson, Fogg, etc were decisions that simply cannot be made by a GM over and over...for that I cannot necessarily argue ...

But if this change takes any of our young talent away under any rationale (I am speaking of EE, Votto, Phillips, Cueto, Volquez, Bailey, Bruce) and they don't lock Dunn up long term to a sensible price, then color me disappointed, and more depressed than ever...

I'm sick of rooting for 2 teams (Reds and Dolphins) that consistently screw up and change course almost randomly at times...here's to hoping this is not a case of that...

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by 15fan

21 games in?

There's clearly something behind the scenes.

Reminds me of firing Tony Perez 44 games into 1993.

this was year 3 and had been building. I think there was obviously something that pushed RCast over the edge.

[SteelSD]

Geez. I don't pay attention for a bit and the Reds go and fire their GM. While the timing is surprising (I figured @ASB), I'm not a bit surprised considering that Castellini brought in Jocketty during the offseason.

I'd suggest that Jocketty is the guy Castellini always wanted running things. "Communication" as the reason for the discharge is likely just code for "Krivsky and Jocketty couldn't possibly exist in the same front office" any longer.

[Kc61]

My guess is that Castellini agreed to a higher payroll (and to eat bad contracts) but told Krivsky he won't accept another losing season. My guess is he didn't require a championship, but wanted a positive season. While there's no doubt Krivsky has improved the talent level, for the Reds and on the farm, he hasn't put together a winning roster and the team is again losing.

Castellini seemed very upset last year when the Reds were punching bags for the Cubs, with Cub fans all over GABP. Perhaps he saw that kind of thing coming again, and just won't have it.

Krivsky certainly changed the team's direction and added a lot of talent. But some owners want results and won't abide lengthy rebuilding projects.

I'm sure Krivsky will be a major league GM again soon. And for the Reds, Jocketty certainly is a great choice.

[coachw513]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Maybe it was the fact that this board has been somewhat dead with the locking of the gamethreads.

Thanks for looking out for us, Bob.

classic

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by 15fan

21 games in?

There's clearly something behind the scenes.

Reminds me of firing Tony Perez 44 games into 1993.

Or maybe Casty just got tired of his GM coming into the office and asking him to eat contracts, millions of dollars at a time, that he had signed.

Dave Ross is up next -- signed to big money and forced onto the roster -- and I'm sure the guy Krivsky asked be released was also making more than his fair share of coin.

Spare change eventually adds up, as edabbs is so famous for regularly pointing out.