Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

[Team Clark]

Originally Posted by Jpup

Doc just said on XM that Krivsky never changed. Who to believe?

Daugherty did not know Krivsky before he was hired. If you look at the same time line being discusses I believe Daugherty and McCoy are talking about exactly the same thing.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by flyer85

... or traded or allowed to walk.

Until talks have been initiated there is NO reason to believe Dunn will be back in 2009.

Castellini likes Dunn and wants him back. It was Krivsky's job to negotiate with Dunn and he had yet to do that which leads me to believe he was going to let Dunn walk at the end of the season. Dunn seems like a Jocketty type player, so I wouldn't be too surprised if one of the first things he does is contact Dunn and his agent about a LTC.

[MrCinatit]

A rather surprising move.
I have to agree with what some others have said here: Looking at the very strange timing of this move, I would have to say there is a lot more than meets the eye. Dumping your GM in late April seems a rare move.
I liked Wayne - I thought he made some excellent pickups (Phillips, Arroyo, Burton, Hamilton, Vosquez), but he also had a lot of head scratchers (Castro, Stanton, Sarloos). Then again, what GM has ever been perfect?

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

It will be very interesting to see how Dunn's contract situation is handled under Jocketty. I had the feeling that this was Dunn's last season in Cincy if Krivsky remained the GM. Now that Jocketty is in charge, I could see him being re-signed to a three or four year deal.

My wild guess is that the opposite will happen and that Jocketty will consider trading Dunn sooner rather than later.

Krivsky was headed to the deadline with Dunn. For Dunn's July - September services this year, WK wasn't going to be offered much. So he probably would have played out the string and let Dunn walk as a free agent.

Most GMs re-structure major league teams to their own taste. O'Brien didn't at all. Krivsky did to a limited extent, but didn't rip the core apart.

I think Jocketty will. My guess is that he will change the offensive core of the team and that Dunn, a potential free agent, is the obvious place to start. My guess is that by mid-season, the outfield of this team will be Griffey in right, Bruce in center, new guy good righty hitter in left.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Castellini likes Dunn and wants him back.

at this point that is only anecdotal. Want poeple to believe it? Then contract negotiations will be started.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by Kc61

My guess is that by mid-season, the outfield of this team will be Griffey in right, Bruce in center, new guy good righty hitter in left.

I have no idea how the Reds get

good righty hitter

in the near future. And with Jr unlikely to be around in 2009 that is now a 2nd rabbit Jocketty will have to pull out of a hat.

I think a guys like Stubbs and Jr now have a much higher potential of being traded since likely have little future in Cincy anyway.

[Triples]

Originally Posted by oneupper

Cast wanted HIS guy Jocketty in this position. IMO, that's what this is all about.

Who hired Krivsky...I thought Cast did. doesn't that make Krivisky HIS guy too?

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by Triples

Who hired Krivsky...I thought Cast did. doesn't that make Krivisky HIS guy too?

Jocketty wasn't available at the time...

[oneupper]

Originally Posted by Triples

Who hired Krivsky...I thought Cast did. doesn't that make Krivisky HIS guy too?

Jocketty was working for STL when Krivsky was hired. Cast didn't know WK before he was hired. Apparently though Cast and Jocketty go way back.

[oneupper]

I have to admit, I once fired a guy because another person became available for the position.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by flyer85

I have no idea how the Reds get a [good righty hitter] in the near future. And with Jr unlikely to be around in 2009 that is now a 2nd rabbit Jocketty will have to pull out of a hat.

I think a guys like Stubbs and Jr now have a much higher potential of being traded since likely have little future in Cincy anyway.

They make a trade. I'm not suggesting they acquire Hank Aaron, but there are often situations around in which a good hitter can be obtained for, say, prospects (of which the Reds have many) and veterans. Adam Dunn himself would have some value -- if he walks away he turns into draft choices -- and packaged with others can indeed get a good hitter in return.

The decision to give Dunn $60 or 70 million in a long-term deal is a major one and is very debatable. If Jocketty doesn't intend to go that route, I would expect a deal in the first half of this season to move Dunn.

On the other hand, Jr. would probably accept a shorter, cheaper contract and may be more likely to stay at reduced rates. Stubbs is not a factor in this, he's a young player, and will either be included in a deal or continue his development as a Reds prospect.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

Yes, I agree. It's been a problem looming for some time now.

Dunn has a ton of leverage going into negotiations, if he wants to exploit it.
The team can't trade him without his consent. The team only has one legit OF next year locked up as you pointed out.

Here's what Cots say of Dunn's contract:

If club exercised 2008 option, Dunn receives full no-trade clause until 6/15/2008 & limited no-trade clause for the remainder of 2008 (allowing Dunn specify 10 clubs to which he would accept a trade)

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by Kc61

They make a trade. I'm not suggesting they acquire Hank Aaron, but there are often situations around in which a good hitter can be obtained for, say, prospects (of which the Reds have many) and veterans. Adam Dunn himself would have some value -- if he walks away he turns into draft choices -- and packaged with others can indeed get a good hitter in return.

Dunn has little trade value and can effectively block any trade even after the middle of June.

And if he walks the ability to trade the picks and others can't realistically happen until after June 2010 ... a little late.

On the other hand, Jr. would probably accept a shorter, cheaper contract and may be more likely to stay at reduced rates.

and is unlikely to be worth it.

PECOTA predicts a MORP of $2.3M in 2009 and $1.2M in 2010 for Jr.

2 things are very likely
1) if signed, Dunn will be overpriced
2) his trade will not bring an adequate replacement

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I don't put much stock in Hal anymore. He seems to have more sour grapes in today's game than he ever has. He always seemed to struggle with Krivsky's tight liped nature.

Yeah, but that's the beauty of the story -- he KNEW Krivsky from before he became Reds GM, and it wasn't like that.

Good story by Hal, IMO. If that's the change in WK's public persona, imagine the change that happened behind the scenes...

[Cyclone792]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Yeah, but that's the beauty of the story -- he KNEW Krivsky from before he became Reds GM, and it wasn't like that.

Good story by Hal, IMO. If that's the change in WK's public persona, imagine the change that happened behind the scenes...

Yup, it's the same theme emerging from the sea from each and every angle.