Rich Hill - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Benihana · 05-03-2008, 07:14 PM

I was shocked to learn that the Cubs sent Hill down to the minors today because of his control problems. He was supposed to be the Cubs #2 starter this year. He's a young lefty workhorse with some decent success (ERA < 4.00 over the last two seasons) at the ML level. He's also a big strikeout guy with one of the best curveballs in the league. Originally a Reds draftee out of high school, I would love to try and buy low on this guy. Granted, the Cubs may not be interested in selling low (and selling low on Hill would still net a decent return) but I'd see if I could pry him loose.

There have been rumblings of Jr. rumors here in Chicago despite their lack of a need for an OF. I'd dangle Jr. and toss in some sweeteners (Francisco/Maloney?) to see if it would pique their interest.

If they have no interest in Jr., I'd float the idea of an Arroyo/Hill swap. They'd get a guy who could step into their playoff-ready rotation and we'd get younger, cheaper, and left-handed. Bronson's contract certainly wouldn't be an issue for the Cubs.

Finally if all else fails, maybe he would even be a candidate for an Adam Dunn swap if the Reds decide not to re-sign Dunn. Dunn's always hit well in Wrigley, and as long as the Cubs would be willing to slide Soriano back over to CF and put up with a horrible OF defense, it could be worth a shot. I'd rather keep Dunn, but I'd love to move him for Hill and then make a run at Teixeira.

Regardless, I think Hill is someone we should be targeting. Imagine this rotation for the next four years:

Harang
Volquez
Hill
Cueto
Bailey/Thompson

What do you think- what would it take?

Benihana · 05-03-2008, 08:41 PM

Alex Gonzalez strikes me as a guy the Cubs may have use for as well. I'd dangle him as a sweetener for any of these deals as well.

reds44 · 05-03-2008, 08:43 PM

I'm not trading anymore offense on this team for pitching right now, especially for Rich Hill, who I think very little of. I think it's very little Maloney will end up being just as good or better than Hill. Hill's got 2 pitches, and he hasn't been getting his curve over this year. He's already 28 years old so he isn't even young anymore.

When we deal Dunn, we need to get a bat in return.

Benihana · 05-03-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reds44

I'm not trading anymore offense on this team for pitching right now, especially for Rich Hill, who I think very little of.

When we deal Dunn, we need to get a bat in return.

Sign Teixeira. I may put it in my signature soon.

And FWIW, Dunn would be the last option when talking about a deal for Rich Hill. I'd try to sell them on Jr. first and Arroyo second.

reds44 · 05-03-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benihana

Sign Teixeira. I may put it in my signature soon.

And FWIW, Dunn would be the last option when talking about a deal for Rich Hill. I'd try to sell them on Jr. first and Arroyo second.

I don't even know if I'd do Bronson for Hill, and if I would it would be because of BA's contract alone. If you sign Teixeira you are going to move Votto from 1B where he is a + athlete, to LF where he is neutral at best and as he gets older will quickly become -, and you lock yourself in with EE at 3rd.

I don't think, nor do I really want, the Reds to poney up the kind of cash Mark is going to get on the open market either.

Benihana · 05-03-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reds44

I don't even know if I'd do Bronson for Hill, and if I would it would be because of BA's contract alone. If you sign Teixeira you are going to move Votto from 1B where he is a + athlete, to LF where he is neutral at best and as he gets older will quickly become -, and you lock yourself in with EE at 1st.

I don't think, nor do I really want, the Reds to poney up the kind of cash Mark is going to get on the open market either.

Well I would definitely trade Arroyo for Hill, no question about it. Hill has much better stuff, is younger, cheaper, and left handed. He would give the Reds a tremendous amount of payflex to sign someone like Texeira, and will only get better while Arroyo will only get worse. Gee, let me think about that one...

I'd much rather have Votto in LF and Teixeira at 1B than Dunn in LF and Votto in 1B. Matt Kemp is not going to be traded. So let me ask you, who would you be targeting?

reds44 · 05-03-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benihana

Well I would definitely trade Arroyo for Hill, no question about it. Hill has much better stuff, is younger, cheaper, and left handed. He would give the Reds a tremendous amount of payflex to sign someone like Texeira, and will only get better while Arroyo will only get worse. Gee, let me think about that one...

I'd much rather have Votto in LF and Teixeira at 1B than Dunn in LF and Votto in 1B. Matt Kemp is not going to be traded. So let me ask you, who would you be targeting?

Rich Hill does not have better stuff than Bronson Arroyo. No way. It's not even close. Hill might be "younger" but only by three years and he definatley isn't "young." Like I said if I was going to trade Arroyo for Hill it would only because of Bronson's contract.

I have absolutely no idea what market there is going to be for Griffey or Dunn, so it's hard for me to say who I would be targeting. I just don't think I want to see the Reds lock up 20% of their payroll on one player. There are too many variables that can go bad.

Benihana · 05-03-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reds44

Rich Hill does not have better stuff than Bronson Arroyo. No way. It's not even close. Hill might be "younger" but only by three years and he definatley isn't "young." Like I said if I was going to trade Arroyo for Hill it would only because of Bronson's contract.

I have absolutely no idea what market there is going to be for Griffey or Dunn, so it's hard for me to say who I would be targeting. I just don't think I want to see the Reds lock up 20% of their payroll on one player. There are too many variables that can go bad.

Rich Hill has much better stuff than Bronson Arroyo my friend. Ask anyone who knows baseball. He has a top 3 pitch in all of baseball, and he throws at least as hard as Arroyo. Hence, much better stuff. And by the way, he's over three years younger and left-handed, something the Reds lack throughout the organization. Throw in the contract situation, and it's a no-brainer.

Benihana · 05-03-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reds44

I have absolutely no idea what market there is going to be for Griffey or Dunn, so it's hard for me to say who I would be targeting.

Of course. This is the same response all of the "naysayer" GM's give, and the same response they all gave when panning The Trade. If you don't like the return on potential trades, then suggest a specific alternative. I challenge you.

reds44 · 05-03-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benihana

Of course. This is the same response all of the "naysayer" GM's give, and the same response they all gave when panning The Trade. If you don't like the return on potential trades, then suggest a specific alternative. I challenge you.

I'll get on the horn with GMs in baseball right now to find out what I can get. There are plenty of things I could suggest, and there probably is no chance of anything I say happening.

As for "The Trade" if that's the best the Reds could get than they shouldn't have dealt Kearn and Lopez. Easy solution.

reds44 · 05-03-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benihana

Rich Hill has much better stuff than Bronson Arroyo my friend. Ask anyone who knows baseball. He has a top 3 pitch in all of baseball, and he throws at least as hard as Arroyo. Hence, much better stuff. And by the way, he's over three years younger and left-handed, something the Reds lack throughout the organization. Throw in the contract situation, and it's a no-brainer.

Hill throws two pitches, and one of them is a fastball in the upper 80s. He can't locate that top three pitch in all of baseball. Both Arroyo and Hill rely on offspeed pitches, and Arroyo has more of them and locates them better. They throw about equally hard.

Advantage: Arroyo

Who exactly is "anyone who knows baseball" anyways? The Cubs have a starting rotation that is already suspect, and they just shipped Hill out of town. I guess Pinella, Rothschild, and Hendry don't know baseball either.

cincinnati chili · 05-04-2008, 02:03 AM

I'd trade almost any player in the Reds organization for Rich Hill. I don't blame the Cubs for sending him down for a while to straighten out his release point, but let's put things in perspective.

The guy is being sent down with a 4.12 ERA.

I wish that Reds starters who got off to BAD starts, would exhibit that level of failure.

He's been dominant for a year and a half and he's only 28. He's better than any pitcher the Reds have developed since the 1980s (since Tom Browning).

No I'm not exaggerating.

Topcat · 05-04-2008, 04:16 AM

hill has hit a speed bump and I truly believe the Cubs will not trade him at this time. All he needs is some time to get on track, sad for us but probably an accurate assessment.

GAC · 05-04-2008, 04:28 AM

ATL will offer Mark a LTC at some point in the season.

fearofpopvol1 · 05-04-2008, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAC

ATL will offer Mark a LTC at some point in the season.

Doubtful he'll accept, espcially with Boras as his agent.

05-03-2008, 07:14 PM	#1
Benihana Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 8,432	Rich Hill I was shocked to learn that the Cubs sent Hill down to the minors today because of his control problems. He was supposed to be the Cubs #2 starter this year. He's a young lefty workhorse with some decent success (ERA < 4.00 over the last two seasons) at the ML level. He's also a big strikeout guy with one of the best curveballs in the league. Originally a Reds draftee out of high school, I would love to try and buy low on this guy. Granted, the Cubs may not be interested in selling low (and selling low on Hill would still net a decent return) but I'd see if I could pry him loose. There have been rumblings of Jr. rumors here in Chicago despite their lack of a need for an OF. I'd dangle Jr. and toss in some sweeteners (Francisco/Maloney?) to see if it would pique their interest. If they have no interest in Jr., I'd float the idea of an Arroyo/Hill swap. They'd get a guy who could step into their playoff-ready rotation and we'd get younger, cheaper, and left-handed. Bronson's contract certainly wouldn't be an issue for the Cubs. Finally if all else fails, maybe he would even be a candidate for an Adam Dunn swap if the Reds decide not to re-sign Dunn. Dunn's always hit well in Wrigley, and as long as the Cubs would be willing to slide Soriano back over to CF and put up with a horrible OF defense, it could be worth a shot. I'd rather keep Dunn, but I'd love to move him for Hill and then make a run at Teixeira. Regardless, I think Hill is someone we should be targeting. Imagine this rotation for the next four years: Harang Volquez Hill Cueto Bailey/Thompson What do you think- what would it take? __________________ Go BLUE!!! Last edited by Benihana; 05-03-2008 at 07:41 PM.

05-04-2008, 02:03 AM	#12
cincinnati chili post hype sleeper Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 10,351	Re: Rich Hill I'd trade almost any player in the Reds organization for Rich Hill. I don't blame the Cubs for sending him down for a while to straighten out his release point, but let's put things in perspective. The guy is being sent down with a 4.12 ERA. I wish that Reds starters who got off to BAD starts, would exhibit that level of failure. He's been dominant for a year and a half and he's only 28. He's better than any pitcher the Reds have developed since the 1980s (since Tom Browning). No I'm not exaggerating. __________________ On Dasher On Dancer On Prancer Ondrusek

05-04-2008, 04:16 AM	#13
Topcat Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,928	Re: Rich Hill hill has hit a speed bump and I truly believe the Cubs will not trade him at this time. All he needs is some time to get on track, sad for us but probably an accurate assessment. __________________ 2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

05-04-2008, 04:28 AM	#14
GAC What Me Worry? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bellefontaine, Ohio Posts: 26,420	Re: Rich Hill ATL will offer Mark a LTC at some point in the season. __________________ "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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05-03-2008, 08:41 PM	#2
Benihana Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 8,432	Re: Rich Hill Alex Gonzalez strikes me as a guy the Cubs may have use for as well. I'd dangle him as a sweetener for any of these deals as well. __________________ Go BLUE!!!