Jay Bruce called up!!!!!

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

In all fairness to Jocketty, it was Wayne that decided to add Patterson to the roster. It was Wayne that decided Bruce had to go to AAA to work on some things. Whether he was right or wrong, it was Wayne's call.

Walt was stuck with Patterson (among others). It kind of made sense to see if Patterson and Freel could play. Now granted, it was apparent earlier than today that they really weren't the answer, but at that point, it was only 2-3 weeks more until Bruce's Super 2 date was over.

I just hope Bruce really is ready.

No, it was Bob who told Wayne to get Patterson 'no matter what it takes'. If it was Wayne's call, Patterson would have been in camp at the start of the spring, not coming in during the middle of March.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by jojo

Maybe. Or maybe it'll have very little to do with Jocketty.

Gee, that's cryptic.

I think even the most generous observer of the Reds would agree that the answers to the Reds' pitching woes don't currently reside in the Reds' system.

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Gee, that's cryptic.

I think even the most generous observer of the Reds would agree that the answers to the Reds' pitching woes don't currently reside in the Reds' system.

You're right: most of the answers are already on the major league roster...

[GAC]

Having Bruce up (which I don't oppose) is a nice distraction from the other problems that plaque this '08 squad. I just hope expectations (pressure) are not too high on this kid. He's only 21.

We need to show patience with some of the youngsters that are being given the opportunity to play this year.... Volquez, Votto, now Bruce, and especially Johnny Cueto. Think outside the box. They are possibly the future. Not simply the '08 season. For anyone to look at any of these young guy's '08 performance and leave out the developmental aspect (learning curve) into that equation, and suggest they may not be the answer is being pretty short-sighted IMHO.

This team has been hurt with key injuries to players like Gonzo and Keppinger, which has forced this team to thrust players like Hairston and Janish into starting roles.

They are obviously trying to gracefully (and diplomatically) deal with the deteriorating performance of an aging superstar (Jr). It's an issue they are avoiding and possibly going to allow to resolve itself when the season ends.

What are they going to do with Adam Dunn? No indications have been yet given by this FO.

Yes, our pitching still needs to be addressed. Primarily in the #4 and #5 spots as far as I'm concerned. That is easier said then done. We can complain all we want about guys like Belisle and Fogg; but in the off-season there wasn't much the market was offering up as sound alternatives when the host teams were asking for an "arm and a leg" (due to the market) and very high level prospects. The only pitcher I would have liked this FO to go after was Haren, and it was stated they wanted high level prospects including Cueto. Other then that? Blah! I wasn't that high on Bedard who is now with Seattle, not impressive IMO, and is now on the DL.

It's going to be interesting to see what direction Jocketty takes once the trading deadline arrives. I'm not saying he is necessarily going to fix it then; but the process will, IMHO, begin then, and then proceed through the off-season.

I didn't go into the '08 season with high expectations. I didn't expect to see this team offensively struggle out of the gate like they did; but I was more concerned about growth and progress.

I think a much clearer picture of the direction Jocketty is going to take this team will start to be seen come mid-season and there after.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Bob is the boss and he likes Dusty, Walt would do what he's told.

Doesn't matter now anyway.

I don't think so. I think that if Bob tries to micromanage and overrule Walt, Walt will just quit.

I also think that Bob had enough respect for both Wayne and Walt to let them do their jobs. No evidence that Bob influenced any of Wayne's decisions.. Patterson is 100% Wayne's baby, just like AGon, Freel, Stanton, etc.

However, even in hindsight, I still think that Patterson was a decent gamble. Sure, it didn't work out, but it was worth a try.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

You're right: most of the answers are already on the major league roster...

Really? So how do you explain the Reds' pitching being 14th out of 15 in the NL in RA?

Have the Reds extended Harang beyond his current contract, so he can pitch alongside a MLB-ready Cueto?

And I see a bullpen that's about 2 bulldogs short, and a good long-man short.

Basically what you're counting on is for the Reds to go 5 for 5 in the pitching prospect department. Again, even the most the generous critic of the Reds' system would say that that's not just an anomaly, but a miracle.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Really? So how do you explain the Reds' pitching being 14th out of 15 in the NL in RA?

Have the Reds extended Harang beyond his current contract, so he can pitch alongside a MLB-ready Cueto?

And I see a bullpen that's about 2 bulldogs short, and a good long-man short.

Arguing Cueto is three years away from being a MLB-ready starter pretty much damages your credibility on anything pitching related IMHO.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

No, it was Bob who told Wayne to get Patterson 'no matter what it takes'. If it was Wayne's call, Patterson would have been in camp at the start of the spring, not coming in during the middle of March.

No, this was a quote twisted around to blame Bob.

Wayne was chasing Lofton and Patterson all winter. He CLEARLY wanted them. As I said earlier, there was no context to that quote. Wayne could've told Bob that he wanted Patterson, but Patterson wanted 3 million. Then Bob could've said, "Fine, if you think Patterson will help us, do what it takes".

If Wayne didn't want Patterson, he could've simply not added him to the 25 man roster. Again, how come Wayne wasn't "forced" to put Harrison on the 25 man roster? Wasn't he one of Dusty's boys too?

Wayne didn't show a lot of class on his way out. He tried to blame all his mistakes on other people and tried to rationalize away some mistakes (like Cormier).. After hearing him BS about the Cormier trade being "ok", how does he have any credibility left?

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by jojo

Arguing Cueto is three years away from being a MLB-ready starter pretty much damages your credibility on anything pitching related IMHO.

I'd be just as credible if I said he'll never make it. Your timetables have been all kinds of wrong on the optimistic scale since your arrival.

I think credibility is not at all *my* issue.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I'd be just as credible if I said he'll never make it.

No. It would be a blanket generalization (a gross one at that).

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Really? So how do you explain the Reds' pitching being 14th out of 15 in the NL in RA?

Have the Reds extended Harang beyond his current contract, so he can pitch alongside a MLB-ready Cueto?

And I see a bullpen that's about 2 bulldogs short, and a good long-man short.

Basically what you're counting on is for the Reds to go 5 for 5 in the pitching prospect department. Again, even the most the generous critic of the Reds' system would say that that's not just an anomaly, but a miracle.

I see a rotation that has four spots filled (not buying your argument that Cueto is three years away), with the final spot being filled by ONE of THREE in Bailey, Thompson, and Maloney. The bullpen looks good too with Belisle in long relief and maybe one more piece from the farm...

BTW, dude: there are 16 teams in the NL...

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by jojo

No. It would be a blanket generalization (a gross one at that).

But that's where your predictions and projections become unmoored from reality--believing that every pitching prospect is likely to meet his ceiling.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

No, this was a quote twisted around to blame Bob.

Wayne was chasing Lofton and Patterson all winter. He CLEARLY wanted them. As I said earlier, there was no context to that quote. Wayne could've told Bob that he wanted Patterson, but Patterson wanted 3 million. Then Bob could've said, "Fine, if you think Patterson will help us, do what it takes".

If Wayne didn't want Patterson, he could've simply not added him to the 25 man roster. Again, how come Wayne wasn't "forced" to put Harrison on the 25 man roster? Wasn't he one of Dusty's boys too?

Wayne didn't show a lot of class on his way out. He tried to blame all his mistakes on other people and tried to rationalize away some mistakes (like Cormier).. After hearing him BS about the Cormier trade being "ok", how does he have any credibility left?

So wait.... there was no context to the quote, but you somehow know the context? How does that work? As for 'Harrison', maybe he was willing to sign without a 25 man roster stipulation and Patterson wasn't.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

I see a rotation that has four spots filled (not buying your argument that Cueto is three years away), with the final spot being filled by ONE of THREE in Bailey, Thompson, and Maloney. The bullpen looks good too with Belisle in long relief and maybe one more piece from the farm...

BTW, dude: there are 16 teams in the NL...

Oops. 15 out of 16. Even better. Only the Pirates stand between us and oblivion.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

If you'll remember, I was one of maybe two or three folks reminding people to curb their enthusiasm over Cueto's white-hot start in Spring Training.

It's still a mistake to expect him to throw a starter's complement of innings this year. A pretty big mistake, IMO.

So, yeah, I don't think there is any doubt that I helped keep a measure of perspective here when the sun was rising and setting on Mr. Cueto for that brief shining moment.

IIRC, you also thought Volquez would end up in the pen and would take some serious lumps.