The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in June!

[44Magnum]

Not to mention that he gives up numerous run per year with his horrible defense!

The Reds must let Dunn walk or trade him this year. How can anyone believe he deserves a mega-deal?

[Blue]

Has this issue ever been addressed before?

[Griffey012]

His OBP is almost .400 and his OPS is about .900. I was once a longtime Adam Dunn basher, hater, whatever you call it. Once I finally let go and realized he is what he is and is going to give you 40+bombs, OBP around .385 I have began to realize he is better than I thought. Batting average is the most overrated stat in baseball. They get is to score runs, how do you score runs, first you get on base. Batting average is accounted for in OBP. 2nd you need to get the runners on base in to score.

Dunn currently has gotten 26 rbi in 54 ab's with RISP while batting .222. His BA is the same with RISP and nobody on. This tells one thing, pitchers are afraid of him and pitch him selectively with first base empty. This explains the high OBP and low batting average. His batting average with runners on, which would include every situation with a RISP and runner on first is .240 with an OBP of .406, he gets more pitches to hit.

He is also a career .278 hitter out of the 2 spot. Which may be concluded to this being the only time he has a feared hitter batting behind him. Im sure it was alway Jr behind him in the 3 spot. Say what u want about Griffey, ppl still fear him.

I say we try to get Dunn for 4yrs 50-55 million range, but let's not overpay and strap us financially.

[Homer Bailey]

Right. Because batting average is what the Reds pay him for. Ignore that OPS of over .900. Ignore the 4 years of 40 HR, 100 R, 100 RBI, OPS over .850.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by Griffey012

I say we try to get Dunn for 4yrs 50-55 million range, but let's not overpay and strap us financially.

We will never get Dunn for that amount. It'll be closer to 4-years $60-65 million.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by 44Magnum

The Reds must let Dunn walk or trade him this year. How can anyone believe he deserves a mega-deal?

Ok, look who is batting behind Adam Dunn??????????????

The guy doesn't get any pitches to hit... They pitch around him, and therefore with his great EYE, he gets a ton of Walks, but the few tiny not so many pitches that are hittable, he hits out of the Park... He has Zero Protection in the lineup!

Why don't you start another Thread for Edwin, Mr .172

[Griffey012]

I think it'll be interesting to see what his market value is once he is out there. It is going to depend a lot on teams philosophy and their ball park. I could see him being anywhere from 10 -18 million. Hopefully he will want to ust stay put here.

[thorn]

Originally Posted by Griffey012

His OBP is almost .400 and his OPS is about .900. I was once a longtime Adam Dunn basher, hater, whatever you call it. Once I finally let go and realized he is what he is and is going to give you 40+bombs, OBP around .385 I have began to realize he is better than I thought. Batting average is the most overrated stat in baseball. They get is to score runs, how do you score runs, first you get on base. Batting average is accounted for in OBP. 2nd you need to get the runners on base in to score.

Dunn currently has gotten 26 rbi in 54 ab's with RISP while batting .222. His BA is the same with RISP and nobody on. This tells one thing, pitchers are afraid of him and pitch him selectively with first base empty. This explains the high OBP and low batting average. His batting average with runners on, which would include every situation with a RISP and runner on first is .240 with an OBP of .406, he gets more pitches to hit.

He is also a career .278 hitter out of the 2 spot. Which may be concluded to this being the only time he has a feared hitter batting behind him. Im sure it was alway Jr behind him in the 3 spot. Say what u want about Griffey, ppl still fear him.

I say we try to get Dunn for 4yrs 50-55 million range, but let's not overpay and strap us financially.

There are too many young players comming up for the Reds to make such a hugh commitment to Dunn. They need to throw that money at some starters instead.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by thorn

They need to throw that money at some starters instead.

Who? Remember Eric Milton?

[thorn]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

Who? Remember Eric Milton?

So you don't think we should try and sign FA pitchers in the future because of Milton?

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by thorn

There are too many young players comming up for the Reds to make such a hugh commitment to Dunn. They need to throw that money at some starters instead.

What are you talking about?

Ok, say we save 15 Million Dollars a year with not signing Dunn...

What are you going to do, or better yet, who are you going to get?

Weathers 3.3 Million, Patterson 3 Million, Stanton 3 Million, Ross 2.525 Million, Hatteberg 1.85 Million... All players who shouldn't be here next year...

There's a chunk of Change right there...

Not too mention: Alex Gonzalez 4.6 Million (A joke for his Play and Offense)
Ryan Freel 3 Million (Great guy but not worth 3 Million)

Also, Griffey won't be eating 8.3 Million, so his Salary is off the Books...

This team was constructed very stupidly... By Krivisky...

Even though he traded for Volquez...

What is the best way to go???? You just let us know...

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by thorn

So you don't think we should try and sign FA pitchers in the future because of Milton?

Who is out there that is worth the money? You're going to have to overpay a ton in order to get a pitcher to come to Cincinnati and pitch in that bandbox, and you are going to end up paying a pitcher with Milton like talent a Santana like contract. Slight exaggeration, but free agent pitching is not the answer. Trading and internal development are the two best options for pitching for the Reds.

[thorn]

FA pitchers alone is not the answer, but some are and continuing to build this team around the offense has gotten us NOWHERE despite how great the individual talent may be. Pitching and Defense should be a target spending area this offseason, even if it's sign and trade type of deals. We have a lot of good young talent on the offense side for the next several years to build around. Who? How about Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Keppinger, EE (If we keep him) and thats not including the talent comming up this year or next in Valaika, Frazier, Cumberland, Alonso. You put top notch pitching with that young offense and yes, we have a team capable of winning. If we just keep running out washed up pitchers, crappy bullpens etc, it won't matter how good our offense is, it won't WIN. Winning is more important than any individual accomplishments, period.

[durl]

Originally Posted by 44Magnum

Not to mention that he gives up numerous run per year with his horrible defense!

How many runs does he give up each season with his 8 errors per season average over the past 6 years or so? And what is the scoring impact on the W/L record over 162 games with those 8 errors?

I mean, if we're going to give up one of the top RBI, HR, and Runs Scored men in all of baseball over the past 4-5 years, I would think that 8 errors a year isn't much of a justification. We should accurately quantify how many runs he allows versus what he scores. A large chunk of offense is at stake.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by thorn

FA pitchers alone is not the answer, but some are and continuing to build this team around the offense has gotten us NOWHERE despite how great the individual talent may be. Pitching and Defense should be a target spending area this offseason, even if it's sign and trade type of deals. We have a lot of good young talent on the offense side for the next several years to build around. Who? How about Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Keppinger, EE (If we keep him) and thats not including the talent comming up this year or next in Valaika, Frazier, Cumberland, Alonso. You put top notch pitching with that young offense and yes, we have a team capable of winning. If we just keep running out washed up pitchers, crappy bullpens etc, it won't matter how good our offense is, it won't WIN. Winning is more important than any individual accomplishments, period.

So FA pitchers alone is not the answer, but Pitching and Defense should be the target spending area this offseason...???

Did you read what you posted?