Out-of-left-field trade idea.....

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by pahster

Maybe the Reds should try to rework his contract in order to allow him to go back to the minors. :

Good times

[Rojo]

I wonder if you could work something out with the Angels. Darren Oliver is there only lefty in the pen. He's been ok but how long will that last? And they've gotten squat from their catchers. They've also buried Reggie Willits, who's languishing with a .185 BA. but he's got a solid record of getting on base. Of course he may not be a true CF which would be key to playing time.

Anyhow Ross/Affeldt for Willits and one of their young catchers? Angels are notorious for holding on to guys but its looking like their year and they need to think about the post-season.

[red-in-la]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Even if it's not for the entire length of the contract, people need to keep this in mind.

By the way, let us also not forget that we're talking about a trade within the division that significantly helps the other team. The Reds are only a couple pieces from truly competing--it's not time to completely rebuild and hand the division to the Cubs for years to come.

[red-in-la]

Originally Posted by Benihana

This proposal/thread is something I'd expect to see on the Sun Deck.

They wouldn't let me post it there......

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by red-in-la

They wouldn't let me post it there......

They shouldn't let you post it here.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Rojo

I wonder if you could work something out with the Angels. Darren Oliver is there only lefty in the pen. He's been ok but how long will that last? And they've gotten squat from their catchers. They've also buried Reggie Willits, who's languishing with a .185 BA. but he's got a solid record of getting on base. Of course he may not be a true CF which would be key to playing time.

Anyhow Ross/Affeldt for Willits and one of their young catchers? Angels are notorious for holding on to guys but its looking like their year and they need to think about the post-season.

Sign me up. I've been thinking Affeldt/Willits would be a good deal for both teams. If the Angels would deal a catcher in exchange for Ross I'd do that too, but its doubtful. I wouldn't trade any of their catchers for any of the Reds guys if I were them. Maybe if we threw in some more LH pitching depth like say Maloney or Pelland and a couple prospects at lower levels. I'd be happy with Affeldt/Willits.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by red-in-la

I know how funny it sounds, but if the Reds replaced the 94.0 IP as starters from Josh Fogg, Homer Bailey, and Matt Belisle (the Reds' #5 starters) with Rich Harden (who was available in the offseason for prospects), the team ERA shaves off more than half a run. That's the difference one piece can make. If the Reds had made another move like that, I think they would have been in the thick of the race. I'm not saying the Reds should have done that--I'm just saying it's realistic.

    Player              Ag   ERA   W   L  SV  GS   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO
---+-------------------+--+---+------+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+------+----+----+-
SP  Homer Bailey        22  6.52   0   4  0   6   29.0   44   25   21   8   13   11
SP  Matt Belisle        28  7.28   1   4  0   6   29.7   47   27   24   4    6   14
SP  Josh Fogg           31  7.09   2   3  0   8   35.3   46   37   34  10   14   21
---+-------------------+--+---+------+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+------+----+----+-
TOTAL			26  6.99   3  11  0  20   94.0  137   89   79  22   33   46


    Player              Ag  ERA   W   L  SV  GS    IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO
---+-------------------+--+---+------+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+------+----+----+-
SP  Rich Harden		26  2.10   5   2  0  16   94.3   65   23   22   7   39  122



CURRENT STARTING PITCHING
TEAM		GP	W	L	ERA	IP	H	ER	R	BB	SO
Cincinnati	106	34	43	5.01	594.1	660	335	366	221	500

CURRENT STARTING PITCHING WITHOUT Bailey, Belisle, and Fogg
Cincinnati	86	31	31	4.60	500.1	523	256	277	188	454

CURRENT STARTING PITCHING IF Bailey, Belisle, and Fogg WERE REPLACED BY Harden
Cincinnati	102	36	33	4.21	594.2	588	278	300	227	576

[cincinnati chili]

I think it's perfectly plausible to say the Reds are only a couple moves away from being a division contender. The problem is that when they lose Dunn, they'll be about four moves away, and I worry that the people in charge don't realize that.

[HokieRed]

What the numbers above actually demonstrate, though, is that we'd be in vastly better shape if Harden replaced our #1 starter.

[HokieRed]

I think it's very unrealistic to think the Reds are anywhere near serious contention. We have a young first baseman who has not demonstrated the ability to hit enough for that position, we have a solid, if free-swinging second baseman, we have a good utility player at SS, and an above-average all around, but challenged, defender at third. We have a right-fielder who is the worst #3 hitter in baseball, a young prospect in CF or RF who has great talent but is only barely getting his feet wet, and a slugging left-fielder who is weak defensively. Our catching is weak, period, and our bench players have got to be, as a group, the worst in baseball. We have an injured #1 starter, a very promising but largely untested pair of young starters, and a marginal #4 paid as a #2 whose ERA has been around 6.00 most of this season. The fifth starters are just plain bad. We have an erratic, overpaid closer; a very good set-up man now hurt, an aging veteran 3rd guy who will not be with the team next year; a pair of hard-throwing left-handers, one improving, the other completely undependable; and a promising retread with a very nice curveball. Beyond that group, we have the others. We have a traditional manager who assesses talent according to intuitions and a pitching coach who's not really shown the ability to develop anybody. How, on earth, does this add up to anything approaching a contender? I don't mean to be harsh, but we will not get anywhere until we start to evaluate realistically what we have and do not have.

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by HokieRed

I think it's very unrealistic to think the Reds are anywhere near serious contention. We have a young first baseman who has not demonstrated the ability to hit enough for that position, we have a solid, if free-swinging second baseman, we have a good utility player at SS, and an above-average all around, but challenged, defender at third. We have a right-fielder who is the worst #3 hitter in baseball, a young prospect in CF or RF who has great talent but is only barely getting his feet wet, and a slugging left-fielder who is weak defensively. Our catching is weak, period, and our bench players have got to be, as a group, the worst in baseball. We have an injured #1 starter, a very promising but largely untested pair of young starters, and a marginal #4 paid as a #2 whose ERA has been around 6.00 most of this season. The fifth starters are just plain bad. We have an erratic, overpaid closer; a very good set-up man now hurt, an aging veteran 3rd guy who will not be with the team next year; a pair of hard-throwing left-handers, one improving, the other completely undependable; and a promising retread with a very nice curveball. Beyond that group, we have the others. We have a traditional manager who assesses talent according to intuitions and a pitching coach who's not really shown the ability to develop anybody. How, on earth, does this add up to anything approaching a contender? I don't mean to be harsh, but we will not get anywhere until we start to evaluate realistically what we have and do not have.

Ouch. An 11-nothing diagnosis?

Its not as bad as all that. You've got a core of young hitters -- Dunn, Bruce, Votto, Phillips and Encarnacion -- that a lot of teams would kill for (my Giants-fan friends sure would). You've got three pitchers who could win a short series by themselves. And now you've got one of the best bullpens in the league.

I think chilli's prognosis is closer to the truth. With the caveat that moving Dunn doesn't have to set us "four moves back" if he brings the right return. Sadly, it looks like the league isn't interested.

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by mth123

Sign me up. I've been thinking Affeldt/Willits would be a good deal for both teams. If the Angels would deal a catcher in exchange for Ross I'd do that too, but its doubtful. I wouldn't trade any of their catchers for any of the Reds guys if I were them. Maybe if we threw in some more LH pitching depth like say Maloney or Pelland and a couple prospects at lower levels. I'd be happy with Affeldt/Willits.

But their catchers are, maybe, Mr. Right. Ross is Mr. Right Now. The key is Willits in center. We could use a lead-off man, but not on an outfield corner.