How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

[schmidty622]

We all know this is should be a big offseason for the Reds. Jocketty has money spend and roster spots to fill, so use this thread to tell us how you would go about turning the Reds around in 2009.

I'll start:

(These are assuming that Adam Dunn is let go as it would be cost prohibitive to do some of these with Dunn still on the team)

EDIT: Now that Dunn IS gone

1. Sign 2b Orlando Hudson or Rafael Furcal
Either would be a good pick up and probably come at a reasonable price because of their injury history. Furcal could easily bat leadoff and Hudson is a good top of the order bat who could probably bat leadoff if given the chance, as he sports a pretty solid OBP. Both play outstanding defense at their respective positions. If you sign Hudson, Phillips moves to SS.

2. Give Dickerson the center field job and keep him there
By all accounts Dickerson plays a great CF and has some amount of pop in his bat. While he does strike out too often, he could be a good #7 hitter. Sort of a Mike Cameron player.

3. Sign Derek Lowe
A veteran pitcher with strong groundball tendencies would help in GABP and give the Reds their best starting five in recent memory. (Assuming Harang rebounds and Cueto progresses)

4. Let Ryan Hanigan start at catcher
He doesn't really have anything left to prove in the minors as he as a .381 career minor league OBP and a .291 avg. He plays a solid catcher and unless the Reds make a play for a young catcher there are no better options out there in FA. Sign a cheap backup like Johnny Estrada.

5. Move Keppinger or Encarnacion to left with the other guy playing 3b (If they don't want to get a big OF bat)
This move would at least maintain if not improve the defense in left. It also keeps Kepps bat in the lineup which I think is pretty important.

I think that these moves would be good steps in moving the Reds away from the slug it out team that they are now to a more defensive minded and fundamental team.

What do you guys think the Reds should do?

[schmidty622]

I guess I was right: Dunn won't be back.... Or was I.

Yup I was right

[schmidty622]

Oh, and here are the 2009 free agents:

Catchers
Rod Barajas (33)- $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Michael Barrett (32)
Johnny Estrada (33)
Jason Kendall (35) - club option for '09; vests with 110 games played in '08
Paul Lo Duca (37)
Miguel Olivo (30) - $2.7MM club option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout
Ivan Rodriguez (37)
David Ross (32)
Jason Varitek (37)
Gregg Zaun (38)

First basemen
Sean Casey (34)
Tony Clark (37)
Carlos Delgado (37) - $16MM mutual option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with a $5MM buyout
Eric Hinske (31)
Doug Mientkiewicz (35)
Kevin Millar (37)
Richie Sexson (34)
Mark Teixeira (29)

Second basemen
Ray Durham (37)
Mark Ellis (32)
Mark Grudzielanek (39)
Orlando Hudson (31)
Tadahito Iguchi (34)
Jeff Kent (41)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Mark Loretta (37)
Aaron Miles (32)
Jose Valentin (39)

Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera (34)
David Eckstein (34)
Adam Everett (32)
Rafael Furcal (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Cesar Izturis (29)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Edgar Renteria (33) - $12MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Juan Uribe (30)
Omar Vizquel (42) - $5.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout

Third basemen
Casey Blake (35)
Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Joe Crede (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Wes Helms (33) - $3.75MM club option for '09
Chipper Jones (37) - $8-11MM vesting option for '09
Dallas McPherson (27)

Left fielders
Moises Alou (42)
Garret Anderson (37) - $14MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Milton Bradley (31)
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Luis Gonzalez (41)
Raul Ibanez (37)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Craig Monroe (32)
Jay Payton (36)
Wily Mo Pena (27) - $5MM club option or $2MM player option for '09
Manny Ramirez (37) - $20MM club option for '09
Juan Rivera (30)

Center fielders
Rocco Baldelli (27)
Mike Cameron (36) - $10MM club option for '09 with a $750K buyout
Jim Edmonds (39)
Mark Kotsay (33)
Corey Patterson (29)

Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (35)
Casey Blake (35)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Bobby Kielty (32)
Brad Wilkerson (32)

DHs
Milton Bradley (31)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with $5MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Raul Ibanez (37)
Manny Ramirez (37)
Juan Rivera (30)
Mike Sweeney (35)
Frank Thomas (41)
Jim Thome (38) - $13MM club option for '09 with $3MM buyout; vests with 564 PAs in '08
Jose Vidro (34) - vesting option for '09

Starting pitchers
Tony Armas Jr. (31)
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Josh Fogg (32)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Esteban Loaiza (37)
Braden Looper (34)
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40)
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42) - $12MM club option for '09
Brett Tomko (36)
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32)

Closers
Joe Borowski (38)
Brian Fuentes (33)
Eric Gagne (33)
Trevor Hoffman (41)
Jason Isringhausen (36)
Todd Jones (41)
Brandon Lyon (29)
Francisco Rodriguez (27)
Salomon Torres (37) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Kerry Wood (32)

Middle relievers
Jeremy Affeldt (30)
Doug Brocail (42) - club option for '09
Shawn Chacon (31)
Juan Cruz (28)
Chad Durbin (31)
Alan Embree (39) - $3MM club option for '09
Scott Eyre (37)
Kyle Farnsworth (33)
Keith Foulke (35)
Aaron Fultz (35)
Tom Gordon (41) - $4.5MM club option for '09 with a $1MM buyout
Eddie Guardado (38)
LaTroy Hawkins (36)
Matt Herges (39) - club option for '09
Bob Howry (35)
Steve Kline (36)
Jon Lieber (39)
Damaso Marte (34) - $6MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Trever Miller (36) - $2MM club option for '09 with a $0.4MM buyout
Guillermo Mota (35)
Will Ohman (31)
Darren Oliver (38)
Al Reyes (38)
Dennys Reyes (32)
Juan Rincon (30)
Russ Springer (40)
Mike Timlin (43)
Salomon Torres (37) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
David Weathers (39)
Kip Wells (32)
Dan Wheeler (31)
Matt Wise (33)

[joe51391]

I feel that the reds need to trade BP,EE and Arroyo for prospects and capitalize the fact that you can get good talent for them now instead of giving them big bucks and getting little in return ala dunn griff. Heck if someone offered great prospects for harrang I would take it. Just look at the A's Twins and Marlins they do it all the time and are always good. That is the problem we have been rebuilding wrong for 7 years now its time to do it the right way

[Ahhhorsepoo]

keep at least BPhill and maybe EE.. not a player on this team wants to be here more than BPhill..

[joe51391]

true but you could get an awfull lot of talent for BP right now. I miss small ball

[schmidty622]

BP could be a good part of a small ball line up. Hit him 2nd agaisnt lefties and 6th against rightys and he would be money.

[Oxilon]

I wouldn't mind signing Mark Kotsay. Solves are centerfield and lead-off issues with one swoop.

[schmidty622]

Originally Posted by Oxilon

I wouldn't mind signing Mark Kotsay. Solves are centerfield and lead-off issues with one swoop.

Defensively that would be great but his career OBP is pretty low if I recall correctly.

[levydl]

Originally Posted by joe51391

I feel that the reds need to trade BP,EE and Arroyo for prospects and capitalize the fact that you can get good talent for them now instead of giving them big bucks and getting little in return ala dunn griff. Heck if someone offered great prospects for harrang I would take it. Just look at the A's Twins and Marlins they do it all the time and are always good. That is the problem we have been rebuilding wrong for 7 years now its time to do it the right way

I honestly would kind of hate to be an As or Twins fan (that said, I'd rather be a fan of them than the Reds right now). I don't think they'll ever win it all with how they run their organizations. They will undoubtedly maximize their wins per dollar spent, and they'll make some playoffs, but they probably won't ever really contend for a WS, unless they get lucky. I think Carl Pohlad, the owner of the Twins, may be the richest owner in baseball. He's got a few billion dollars. Why is he penny pinching? If I were a Twins fan, I'd be pissed that he didn't spend money and shipped out all of his good players while they were still in their primes.

I don't want to be the As or the Twins. I want our rich owners to spend some of their virtually never ending money and win. There's no reason that we should buy them a stadium and not expect Castellini and the Williams' to spend $100-$120 mil. a year. I don't want to trade Bruce when he's 27 because he'll be expensive. I want to spend some money and get some good players around him.

I don't care if Castellini loses $5 mil. one year. For one, there are only 30 baseball teams - they aren't normal business investments, they're very expensive toys only a few people can have, so treat the team that way. If you want to make a bunch of money, buy land, not one of the precious few major league franchises. Really, their only goal should be winning. There's just no way they could lose enough money that it really matters, if they were trying to win. Secondly, they'll make a killing when they decide to sell the club, so they can put the couple mil. they lost over the years back into their kids' trust funds then. In the meantime, their wives will have to lower their shoe budgets to a measley million dollars. Thirdly, if they actually did put a good product on the field, Cincinnati would go nuts. We are starving for a winner. They'd make money on that investment.

Why us fans let these obscenely wealthy owners get away with this small market garbage is beyond me. Us regular people bought them that $300 mil. stadium, we pay to watch them play, we pay for hats and jerseys, and $4 bags of peanuts, and then we tell them its OK, let's sell and start over, we're small market Cincinnati. I don't get it. I want a salary floor, not a cap. If you want to own a baseball team, you better have so much money that it doesn't matter. My dad likes to tell this story about H.L. and Lamar Hunt, who owned the old Texans of the AFL and then the Chiefs of the NFL. When Lamar Hunt was starting up the AFL and trying to compete with the NFL (actually get into the NFL), he lost like $10 mil. in the first 2 years. Some reporter asked his father, H.L., what he thinks of his son losing $10 mil. on a football team, and his dad replied, "Well, if he does it for 25 more years, I guess he'll have to come back for more money."

[Oxilon]

Kotsay's career line:

.282/.337/.414/.752

Not too bad, and add in his good speed and defense for CF, I'd say he'd be a smart pickup. He's making $7MM this season and being that he's 32, I'd expect him to try to find a 4 year deal worth about $32MM-$36MM. Considering the position he plays and the money we freed up, I would say he'd be not that bad of an option.

[Kingspoint]

I agree Schmidty to #3. Derek Lowe is the best-case scenario for improving ths club for 2008-2009. Chances of Arroyo being average at best is only about 10%. Cueto will have another year of learning to pitch in the big leagues. Volquez might resemble his second half more than his first half next year. While the shutting down of Harang probably saved his 2009 season, the question of whether it did or not is still a question-mark. Fogg turned it around a bit after he got shut down. Thompson had to be shut down, but certainly deserves to begin the season in AAA to continue to build up that arm strength at a less taxing level. Homer Bailey showed some signs this year that he is getting closer to being ready for the bigs, but he certainly belongs in the minors to begin next season. Bobby Livingston's rehab is finished, but he's been struggling too much in AAA during his comeback. Belisle is a head-case who may never figure it out. Ramon Ramirez and Matt Maloney both deserve a chance next Spring to earn a shot at the #5 position as they've earned it at AAA. Micah Owings last 3 months of pitching make him a question mark also.

So, with all those question marks, the greatest way to spend the money saved on the Dunn non-signing would be to put it towards acquiring Derek Lowe.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by joe51391

true but you could get an awfull lot of talent for BP right now. I miss small ball

You could, but Phillips' contract is a fantastic contract. We have an All-Star Caliber 2nd Basemen signed for the next three years at a very good price. He's a cornerstone of the franchise for the next three years and is a leader on this club now. He's quiet, doesn't complain, and he's not a prima-donna needing all kinds of attention that some leaders do on other clubs. He does everything well and some things spectacularly.

BP is one of the untouchables on this club.

The club is set. It's time to let them play.

The only tinkering left is to get rid of Corey Patterson and Andy Phillips. Keppinger will come off the bench next season when Gonzo takes over Shortstop again. Keppinger will take Phillips' spot Hopper will take Patterson's spot.

[levydl]

Originally Posted by Kingspoint

You could, but Phillips' contract is a fantastic contract. We have an All-Star Caliber 2nd Basemen signed for the next three years at a very good price. He's a cornerstone of the franchise for the next three years and is a leader on this club now. He's quiet, doesn't complain, and he's not a prima-donna needing all kinds of attention that some leaders do on other clubs. He does everything well and some things spectacularly.

BP is one of the untouchables on this club.

The club is set. It's time to let them play.

The only tinkering left is to get rid of Corey Patterson and Andy Phillips. Keppinger will come off the bench next season when Gonzo takes over Shortstop again. Keppinger will take Phillips' spot Hopper will take Patterson's spot.

My word, it's like some people have selective memory loss. I like Phillips, I think he's a great second basemen and a good hitter who could easily improve. But he does complain - remember his comments last year about how Hamilton gets too much attention? And he is a bit of a primadonna - he has a whole routine every time he gets a hit, he trots to first on groundouts, he tosses his bat and does have half-turn home run trot.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by levydl

My word, it's like some people have selective memory loss. I like Phillips, I think he's a great second basemen and a good hitter who could easily improve. But he does complain - remember his comments last year about how Hamilton gets too much attention? And he is a bit of a primadonna - he has a whole routine every time he gets a hit, he trots to first on groundouts, he tosses his bat and does have half-turn home run trot.

Hamilton did get too much attention. He also didn't bring it up. A reporter questioned him to death until he was forced to say it. And, even then, he said it in a matter-of-fact kind of way like it was the feeling of the clubhouse and not his personal views.

That's not considered a complaint. Sorry. You've got pretty thin skin if you think it is. What he does when he trots around the bases is nothing for a player as good as he is. Most players have their own little thing that they do. That's extremely minor.