Raw Talent

[Mario-Rijo]

I have wanted to try to get a clearer picture of the consensus top 10-15 prospects. Too me top prospect means the player with the most raw talent + most polish + closest to the majors (legitimately close) + make-up (including injury issues). I will run 4 seperate polls 1 for each of the above areas and ask you to answer them as honestly as possible, in other words keep it strictly on topic.

After I run all 4 polls I will calculate the results too see if they jive with the current top 15 prospects. If anyone has anything to add or questions please do. I do have a question to all of you however should we give any weight to one aspect over another, I don't know that I am for that perse but I think it's a question that needs answering.

This one is raw talent which means who has the most god given talent by birth and so on. I'll list 19 raw talent types and 1 "other" you vote for who you think is the most talented 15 and then rank them accordingly by name in your post. If you do not rank them by name I'll assume you agree with the majority who do. One note I will include Homer Bailey as well as the R.O.Y eligible major leaguers. I think Homer is still a prospect to some degree in most eyes.

[Mario-Rijo]

***Attention, before you vote the 2nd "Dickerson" is out of order alphabetically, that is supposed to be Carlos Fisher*** So a vote for that Dickerson is a vote for Fisher, unless otherwise noted in your post.

[OnBaseMachine]

If we're talking about the prospect with the most raw talent, I think that would have to be Yorman Rodriguez. He's a kid described as having plus-plus speed, plus-plus raw power, and plus-plus defensive skills in center field. Kevin Goldstein referred to him as a human tool shed. He's been compared to the likes of Carlos Beltran, Eric Davis, and Cesar Cedeno. He's got an incredibly high ceiling but a low floor at the same time. If we get something in between then he's still a great player.

[OnBaseMachine]

I misread the original post and only voted once instead of 15 times.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

I misread the original post and only voted once instead of 15 times.

Well just as long as you rank your top 15 I can make the proper adjustments later.

I'll rank mine soon.

[Mario-Rijo]

#1 - Yorman
#2 - Duran
#3 - Stubbs
#4 - Dickerson
#5 - Bailey
#6 - Lotzkar
#7 - Soto
#8 - Alonso
#9 - Frazier
#10 - Francisco
#11 - Valaika
#12 - Sulbaran
#13 - Roenicke
#14 - Mesoraco
#15 - Dorn

[HokieRed]

Not sure I remember my 15 but this is pretty close: 1. Bailey, 2. Alonso, 3. Duran, 4. Rodriguez, 5. Stubbs, 6. Lotzkar, 7. Soto, 8. Hildenbrandt, 9. Dickerson, 10. Francisco, 11. Frazier, 12. Sulbaran, 13. Valaika, 14. Stewart, 15 Buchholz

[RED VAN HOT]

I only voted for four in this category because these were the only ones that seemed to define the category for me. If it screws up your accounting, let me know and I will take a stab at ordering the rest.

1. Y Rod - Human tool shed is enough for me
2. Duran - Scooping the field in order to give $2M to a 16 yo. I'm a believer.
3. Stubbs - Great athleticism and attitude. Upside is still there.
4. Buchholz - Unreal college numbers seemed to have transitioned well so far.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT

I only voted for four in this category because these were the only ones that seemed to define the category for me. If it screws up your accounting, let me know and I will take a stab at ordering the rest.

1. Y Rod - Human tool shed is enough for me
2. Duran - Scooping the field in order to give $2M to a 16 yo. I'm a believer.
3. Stubbs - Great athleticism and attitude. Upside is still there.
4. Buchholz - Unreal college numbers seemed to have transitioned well so far.

Buchholz.... really? The guy wasn't a first round pick, didn't get paid like one and didn't come close to having 'unreal college numbers'.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT

I only voted for four in this category because these were the only ones that seemed to define the category for me. If it screws up your accounting, let me know and I will take a stab at ordering the rest.

1. Y Rod - Human tool shed is enough for me
2. Duran - Scooping the field in order to give $2M to a 16 yo. I'm a believer.
3. Stubbs - Great athleticism and attitude. Upside is still there.
4. Buchholz - Unreal college numbers seemed to have transitioned well so far.

I would appreciate it if you gave me your top 15 as it will make it easier. It's not a list of who fits the mold and who doesn't but it's to get an idea of who each person thinks is our most talented 15 players. So that we can ultimately come to a conclusion of who the consensus top 15 is.

I should state that since we are looking for the top 15 overall players I didn't include certain players who fit this mold if I didn't feel they could come close to being considered top 15 material. A prime example is Justin Reed who is ultra toolsy but isn't necc. someone who has a legit chance to make this list currently.

This is more or less a trial run for a potentially new way of rating our prospects in the future that I think is more comprehensive. It basically takes some of the bias out of the equation and forces us all to look at all aspects of a player. It's not a finished product but I think it will give us a good model going forward that we can tweak with enough input.

[GOYA]

I have no opinion. There's no way to tell "God-given talent" because everyone listed has been coached to one degree or another before they became part of the organization.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by GOYA

I have no opinion. There's no way to tell "God-given talent" because everyone listed has been coached to one degree or another before they became part of the organization.

Uh, ok I guess that's your perrogative.

[RED VAN HOT]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Buchholz.... really? The guy wasn't a first round pick, didn't get paid like one and didn't come close to having 'unreal college numbers'.

Buchholz numbers at Delaware

Age
18 .378/.433/.721/1154
19 .387/.433/.689/1122
20 .319/.401/.515/916

Billings .396/.471/.604/1075

I realize that the Colonial Athletic Association is not top tier college ball. Nevertheless, these numbers seem unreal to me. In his last college year he had fewer AB's. I am guessing that contributed to the fall off in numbers. That, in combination with the CAA pushed him lower in the draft. He played third in college, but was projected to play 2B when drafted. His line at Billings, admittedly a hitter's league, is an early indication that his college success may not be the result of weak competition.

[Betterread]

I can only vote for one player. So I did. I can't provide a 1-15 hierarchy.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT

Buchholz numbers at Delaware

Age
18 .378/.433/.721/1154
19 .387/.433/.689/1122
20 .319/.401/.515/916

Billings .396/.471/.604/1075

I realize that the Colonial Athletic Association is not top tier college ball. Nevertheless, these numbers seem unreal to me. In his last college year he had fewer AB's. I am guessing that contributed to the fall off in numbers. That, in combination with the CAA pushed him lower in the draft. He played third in college, but was projected to play 2B when drafted. His line at Billings, admittedly a hitter's league, is an early indication that his college success may not be the result of weak competition.

Many players put up numbers in college that dwarf those, and in premiere conferences.