Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by reds44

The Reds didn't spend any extra money to get Hernandez, the O's made up the difference.

If that's the case, it's a great deal by Jocketty. The team addresses a glaring need and they didn't add a dime of payroll or touch anything resembling a top prospect.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

If that's the case, it's a great deal by Jocketty. The team addresses a glaring need and they didn't add a dime of payroll or touch anything resembling a top prospect.

Plus, Hernandez is a Type A free agent and could net the Reds two draft picks next year. This is a very solid deal by Walt. Now hopefully he's working on finding a shortstop and outfielder.

[VR]

Originally Posted by Will M

pretty amazing. we get rid of Freel and improve the team at the same time. and we didn't really lose any key prospects.

99 sb's against last year, threw out 24%.

Let's hope he doesn't catch Homer Bailey.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Plus, Hernandez is a Type A free agent and could net the Reds two draft picks next year. This is a very solid deal by Walt. Now hopefully he's working on finding a shortstop and outfielder.

Doesn't he have to perform well this year to keep that Type A status? And wouldn't the Reds have to offer him arbitration (after they buy out his contract) even in that case (which he'd probably accept as a 34 year old catcher).

I'm still in favor of the deal, but I don't think his current Type A status will be much of a factor.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Doesn't he have to perform well this year to keep that Type A status? And wouldn't the Reds have to offer him arbitration (after they buy out his contract) even in that case (which he'd probably accept as a 34 year old catcher).

I'm still in favor of the deal, but I don't think his current Type A status will be much of a factor.

I agree with that. But I wonder if he doesn't perform very well does he become a type B and if so would the arbitration # come close to the contract salary if not bought out?

[OnBaseMachine]

Unless his numbers fall completely off, he'll most likely remain a Type A free agent.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

I agree with that. But I wonder if he doesn't perform very well does he become a type B and if so would the arbitration # come close to the contract salary if not bought out?

IIRC, a player can't get cut more than 20% in arbitration

[Az Red]

Good solid work by WJ. What's next?

[GAC]

This is what Walt Jocketty does.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by flyer85

IIRC, a player can't get cut more than 20% in arbitration

So really best case scenario is the economy rebounds Hernandez has an exceptional year, we decline the option and then offer arbitration. That's probably the only way it's a smart move to offer it.

[RedsManRick]

I'm not up in arms or anything, I just think we're doing what fans of a team always do when their team makes a trade: playing up the value upside of the guy(s) they got and diminishing the value of the guy(s) they gave up.

The values of the sides here based on reasonable projections are close enough that it simply comes down to how the guys play in 2009 and if the prospects develop. I think he's roughly comparable to what we'll get from Hanigan and no matter what, there's only 700 PA to be had between them. I don't think Freel, Turner, Waring, and $2M is worth 200 extra PA of Hanigan. If Hernandez puts up his peak numbers again, it's a pretty clear win -- but I just don't see that happening. And I think there's a real risk of Hernandez continuing to decline, hitting .250/.300/.360, and still getting the lion's share of the PA's because he's the "proven vet".

My biggest concern remains our OF situation. I would've made Castillo my #2 catcher and focused elsewhere. I'm concerned that we're frittering away the room we have to maneuver and will be unable to do anything impactful with LF. As I said, deck chairs.

[lollipopcurve]

I would've made Castillo my #2 catcher and focused elsewhere.

Plenty of time. They've made a run at Dye already...

We don't know how well Castillo catches.

[redsfan30]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I'm not up in arms or anything, I just think we're doing what fans of a team always do when their team makes a trade: playing up the value upside of the guy(s) they got and diminishing the value of the guy(s) they gave up.

You've been here for four years now, you should know that if this place does not like an acquisition, it will let you know in no undertain terms.

Redszone rarely, if ever, collectively "likes" transactions.

[CougarQuest]

WJ

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

The values of the sides here based on reasonable projections are close enough that it simply comes down to how the guys play in 2009 and if the prospects develop. My biggest concern remains our OF situation. I would've made Castillo my #2 catcher and focused elsewhere.

1. Making Castillo the #2 catcher leaves you with two HUGE question marks at one of the most important positions on the field, not to mention most likely well below average production.
2. Freel and Co. were not going to be primary trade chips to focus anywhere else. There is no reason why you can't "focus elsewhere" beginning now.

I applaud this trade.