Willy Taveras

[alexad]

68 steals last year. 68 steals. 68 steals. We need someone to get on base and steal bases. Your lead off hitter is suppose to get on base and steal bases. His on base percentage may not be awesome, but come on, we have cried about not having a player with speed to play center field and lead off. Who else is there to get this job done that is still out there? THe days of an Eric Davis being out in centerfield to hit homeruns, steal bases and run like the wind are over.

This man can steal bases and that is what I like in a lead off hitter. He is better in the field than Patterson.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar

I know I know.. but all this talk about him not being a good fit and this almost hatred for the guy makes me sympathize for him. I think this team needs to score more runs then runs against to be successful and they need someone who can motor around the bases. It would help for Willy to be able to get on base I understand but I think you see where I am going with this..

You're missing the point, I think. Everyone thinks that this team needs to score more runs. What we're worried about is that Taveras lacks the essential skill required to help the team do that: OBP.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by alexad

68 steals last year. 68 steals. 68 steals. We need someone to get on base and steal bases. Your lead off hitter is suppose to get on base and steal bases. His on base percentage may not be awesome, but come on, we have cried about not having a player with speed to play center field and lead off. Who else is there to get this job done that is still out there? THe days of an Eric Davis being out in centerfield to hit homeruns, steal bases and run like the wind are over.

This man can steal bases and that is what I like in a lead off hitter. He is better in the field than Patton.

Stolen bases are overrated. Many times, these "speedy" players actually run their team out of an inning when trying to "make something happen." See Coleman, Vince.

The good teams get players on base, and they get A LOT of them on base. I am amazed that this is not more widely understood at this point.

Who the heck is Patton?

[RedLegSuperStar]

Originally Posted by Raisor

I actually don't, but ok.

When he gets on base his ability to get into scoring position seems to be automatic. If this team can net a Jermaine Dye and mix that with Joey Votto and Jay Bruce and this could actually be a potent team.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar

When he gets on base his ability to get into scoring position seems to be automatic. If this team can net a Jermaine Dye and mix that with Joey Votto and Jay Bruce and this could actually be a potent team.

He DOESN'T get on base.

[alexad]

Meant Patterson, and I have made the change. Anyway stolen bases are a lost art and when Freel got on in the past and attempted to steal, it played head games with the pitcher.

Taveras is not fast, he is really fast with blazing speed. NOt sure how 68 stolen bases is considered overrated. That could produce 68 runs for a team that is going to need them with the slap stick style of play we are going to see next year. The days of hitting them out of the park are over for Reds fans.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by alexad

68 steals last year. 68 steals. 68 steals. We need someone to get on base and steal bases. Your lead off hitter is suppose to get on base and steal bases. His on base percentage may not be awesome, but come on, we have cried about not having a player with speed to play center field and lead off. Who else is there to get this job done that is still out there? THe days of an Eric Davis being out in centerfield to hit homeruns, steal bases and run like the wind are over.

This man can steal bases and that is what I like in a lead off hitter. He is better in the field than Patterson.

He's nowhere remotely CLOSE to being as good defensively as Corey.

[alexad]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

He's nowhere remotely CLOSE to being as good defensively as Corey.

I have to agree to disagree with you on that one. :thumbdown

[Cyclone792]

Originally Posted by alexad

68 steals last year. 68 steals. 68 steals. We need someone to get on base and steal bases. Your lead off hitter is suppose to get on base and steal bases. His on base percentage may not be awesome ...

You're confusing yourself here. You're right in one regard when stating that we need a leadoff hitter who can get on base, but then you contradict yourself in the following sentence when stating that Taveras' on base percentage isn't awesome.

Taveras' ability to get on base is somewhere between lousy and disgraceful.

FYI, I love stolen bases at a high percentage clip and Taveras can offer that. But his walk rate is about two dozen walks per year too lousy for him to be a successful leadoff hitter.

Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar

When he gets on base his ability to get into scoring position seems to be automatic. If this team can net a Jermaine Dye and mix that with Joey Votto and Jay Bruce and this could actually be a potent team.

"When he gets on base ... " is precisely the problem. Taveras won't get on base anywhere close to enough times for this offense to sniff potent.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by alexad

I have to agree to disagree with you on that one. :thumbdown

Every single defensive metric known to man mirrors my opinion, but whatever.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by alexad

Meant Patterson, and I have made the change. Anyway stolen bases are a lost art and when Freel got on in the past and attempted to steal, it played head games with the pitcher.

Taveras is not fast, he is really fast with blazing speed. NOt sure how 68 stolen bases is considered overrated. That could produce 68 runs for a team that is going to need them with the slap stick style of play we are going to see next year. The days of hitting them out of the park are over for Reds fans.

Stolen bases are a lost art because a lot of teams realize they are too risky to attempt. Yes, they play mind games with the pitcher--but they also risk the most valuable asset in the game: base runners.

Sure, in isolated situations a SB can be a good thing. In retrospect, we can say that stealing a base played mind games or this and that game or sitation. But all of the information I've read that tries to quantitatively measure the value of stolen bases over a season arrives at a similar conclusion: they are, at best, a non-factor in success--and can often be an impediment. If anything, the better statistic is stolen base success rate, not total stolen bases. That way, at least you are measuring the wisdom of a player's base running.

No, I don't think that we are entering an era of "slap stick" hitting. Small ball teams like the Cardinals were a thing of the 70s and 80s. The problem is the Reds FO still thinks we're back there.

[Raisor]

I think Earl Weaver has something to say, Earl when are the Reds going to get some team speed?

Team speed for [beeb] sakes?!?! You get [beep] [beep] little fleas on the [beep] bases, getting picked off, trying to steal, getting thrown out and taking runs away from you. Get them big [beep] that can hit the [beep] ball out of the ballpark, and then you can't make any [beep] mistakes.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by alexad

I have to agree to disagree with you on that one. :thumbdown

Based on... ?

[alexad]

So are we saying Patterson is better than Taveras????? I would hope not. When I said his OBP is not the greatest, I did not say it was so bad he would not help this club. You have to get on base to steal bases. The man played in Colorado and his defense was leaps and bounds better than Patterson. This man can run from one side of the field to the other. SUPER FAST!!!!

What else can we put in Centerfield??? Bruce is a rightfielder, not centerfielder. Dickerson can play there, but is he really ready? Last year was a make or break year for Dickerson and he showed great promise, but I am not sure I can hand him the CF job. We have to have a lead off hitter with the lineup we are going to put out on the field.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by alexad

So are we saying Patterson is better than Taveras????? I would hope not. When I said his OBP is not the greatest, I did not say it was so bad he would not help this club. You have to get on base to steal bases. The man played in Colorado and his defense was leaps and bounds better than Patterson. This man can run from one side of the field to the other. SUPER FAST!!!!

What else can we put in Centerfield??? Bruce is a rightfielder, not centerfielder. Dickerson can play there, but is he really ready? Last year was a make or break year for Dickerson and he showed great promise, but I am not sure I can hand him the CF job. We have to have a lead off hitter with the lineup we are going to put out on the field.

Fast does not equal great defense.