Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Are the Reds such a pathetic loser of a franchise that we have to grab players cut and released by bad teams and put them in our starting lineup?

Are the Reds (A) a small-market team just barely able to stay afloat in a city that is lucky to even have a team, or are they (B) a medium-market team making $10-20 million in profit every year with an owner that has hundreds of millions of dollars?

Hint: the answer is not (A).

Why are the Reds snapping up rejects and castoffs when there are still top-notch outfielders like Abreu, Ramirez, Dunn, Burrell etc etc etc still available for the taking?

Why don't the fans revolt when we see a team raking in huge profits (and playing in an expensive ballpark for free) while fielding one of the worst teams in the league season after season? We just have a loser mentality in this city.

The Rockies released Taveras because they didn't want to risk losing in arbitration and have Taveras make more money than he did in the 2008 season. That is the reason why. Makes good business sense. Why pay a guy more for less production the previous year? Add to that, Spilborghs will be their centerfielder with Dexter Fowler their future centerfielder in waiting. Made all the sense in the world to release the guy when they found out that other teams wouldn't give up anything in a trade because they knew the Rockies would eventually release him.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by jesusfan

okay so now we have the following...

1. Willy Taveras
2. Brandon Phillips
3. Joey Votto
4. LF please...
5. Jay Bruce
6. Edwin Encarnacion
7. Ramon Hernandez
8. Alex Gonzalez

Not bad if we can add a solid right handed bat for the 4 slot...

That's pretty close to what I think it'll be, but I think Dickerson grabs the LF spot because I just don't see us pulling a rabbit out of the hat. Edwin'll break up Votto/Bruce.

1: Taveras
2: Dickerson
3: Votto
4: Encarnacion
5: Bruce
6: Phillips
7: Hernandez
8: Gonzales

If Kepp gets the nod at SS due to an AGon injury (not really unexpected)...

1: Taveras
2: Keppinger
3: Votto
4: Encarnacion
5: Bruce
6: Phillips
7: Hernandez
8: Dickerson

[Az Red]

Originally Posted by Krusty

You see......not everything is raining and gloomy.

By my count, Krusty, 90% of ORG disagrees with you.

This is a small move. Wait for the contract numbers. If this is the ONLY outfielder acquired, big problem. If there is one more coming, I will withhold judgement until then.

[Ron Madden]

Good God!!!

[corkedbat]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

But he's fast man. Fast.

So are Marsupials, but I wouldn't want one leading off.

We can always pray that Drew Stubbs has a fast start at Louisville, makes Taveras expendable and Jimbo takes him off our hands by the trade deadline. Oh bother.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Krusty

The Rockies released Taveras because they didn't want to risk losing in arbitration and have Taveras make more money than he did in the 2008 season. That is the reason why. Makes good business sense. Why pay a guy more for less production the previous year? Add to that, Spilborghs will be their centerfielder with Dexter Fowler their future centerfielder in waiting. Made all the sense in the world to release the guy when they found out that other teams wouldn't give up anything in a trade because they knew the Rockies would eventually release him.

The Rockies released him because he is not a good enough player to make their team. Why risk arbitration with a guy that is not good enough to make your team?

The Reds are taking another bad team's reject and plugging him into the top of the starting lineup. Its a disgrace.:thumbdown

[RedsManRick]

If praying that Willy Taveras can provide you positive value in CF is your solution the OF, then why spend the extra money on acquiring a one year solution in Ramon Hernandez?

Seriously, if Tavares is the answer, what is the question? The Reds are well on their way to wasting the cheap years of Votto & Bruce, let alone EE. The Reds are fairly well set up to push hard through a 2-3 year window and we're taking baby steps (at best). The window will close before we even get within arms reach.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Rounding Third

We have a CF right now that could possibly be the CF of the future in Chris Dickerson. Give me Dickerson every day over spending money to sign a worse player in every category, except speed, for 2 years.

And Dickerson had 102 ABs and we are ready to annoint him an everyday position? Heck, he just had a cup of coffee in the majors with that many ABs. The pitchers didn't even had a chance to pitch to him in a second go around and seeing the initial scouting reports.

What happens if Dickerson struggles in spring training? You still want him in LF or CF on Opening Day? If he tears the cover off the ball in spring training, the Reds have depth and given the length of the season they have options if one of the starters goes down.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by Krusty

It depends. It is only a two-year deal. If the Reds are paying more per season than what they paid Corey Patterson, I would be surprised. Plus, it didn't cost any personnel in regards to a trade.

Bringing in bad players isn't good even if they're cheap, just like buying shoes you can't wear isn't a fair deal even if they're 80% off. When you buy something at any price, it's only a good value if you get what you need out of your purchase. The Reds won't get that with Taveras.

Originally Posted by Krusty

Baldelli could back up Taveras in center and still get plenty ABs while slowly increase his playing time as the season goes on.

So the player with a career OPS+ of 102 "backs up" the guy with a career OPS+ of 72? How exactly does a team win ballgames while doing that?

[RedsManRick]

Anybody have guesses on the $$? I'm going with $6.5M. Patterson all over again (except for the superb defense).

I'm excited to see his PECOTA (and comparing it to Dickerson's...)

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

The Rockies released him because he is not a good enough player to make their team. Why risk arbitration with a guy that is not good enough to make your team?

The Reds are taking another bad team's reject and plugging him into the top of the starting lineup. Its a disgrace.:thumbdown

Dude, the Rockies didn't want to go to arbitration with him. That is why he was non-tendered. Plus, they had cheaper options in Spilborghs and Fowler. It was business.

[Always Red]

This team does everything it can to try to lose it's fan base, doesn't it?

ugh.

And Dusty will be in love with this guy, raving from now until the end of ST about Willie and his speed.

I'm just kind of speechless.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Wow, what a depressing lot. Can NOBODY remain optimistic? Last year was Taveras' worst year. A down year. Why can't anybody see him making improvements? He's young, quick, has hit for a decent average normally, is an excellent baserunner. Yes, he has little to no power and he doesn't walk enough. But I don't see a SINGLE player on any team that doesn't have SOME flaws. What I'd prefer to look at are his GOOD aspects. Considering that it's only costing us cash and not prospects and it's only for 2 years, I like this move. I love Dickerson, but he's far from proven. Our other minor league options just simply aren't ready yet. And instead of rushing them, we've now got a stopgap until they are. I forsee a very solid year from Taveras this year....and a second place finish.

[icehole3]

I dont get all the belly aching and I never will so please spare me all the saber metric stuff, I guess the argument is he doesnt get on base, he cant steal first, OK I get that, I understand that, but after watching 4 or 5 years of trying to slug their ways to wins, why cant people be at least a little patient with the Reds and let them try to win with defense, it won them a title in 1990, matter of fact as I was looking at the old 1990 Reds, I realized Billy Hatcher who's a beloved Reds hero had a .327OBP... "O my gosh!" Could it be you can have a leadoff hitter who has an OBP that low... no way.

Low OBPs that lead their teams to titles, not saying Taveras will do that, can he help lead the Reds to .500 because thats about where the Reds are headed if you wanna be realistic, why not?

2008 Willy Taveras .308

1990 Billy Hatcher .327
1995 Marquis Grissom .317
2001 Tony Womack .307
2002 Darin Erstad .313

[Caveat Emperor]

I'm done with this team.

Really, if they don't want to win baseball games, why should I spend more than a minute of my time or a dollar of my money supporting them.