Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Always Red

This team does everything it can to try to lose it's fan base, doesn't it?

ugh.

And Dusty will be in love with this guy, raving from now until the end of ST about Willie and his speed.

I'm just kind of speechless.

So will Marty.

The guys that love Norris Hopper will love Taveras as well.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by icehole3

I dont get all the belly aching and I never will so please spare me all the saber metric stuff

That's like saying eating at McDonalds and saying "I don't understand all this belly aching over why the food is so bad, and spare me all the nutritional information."

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

If praying that Willy Taveras can provide you positive value in CF is your solution the OF, then why spend the extra money on acquiring a one year solution in Ramon Hernandez?

Seriously, if Tavares is the answer, what is the question? The Reds are well on their way to wasting the cheap years of Votto & Bruce, let alone EE. The Reds are fairly well set up to push hard through a 2-3 year window and we're taking baby steps (at best). The window will close before we even get within arms reach.

Please.....Votto, Bruce, Encarnacion and Phillips are the core of this club. The Reds will lock up the core to longterm deals. They already have done with Phillips. Hernandez, Rhodes and Taveras are complimentary players on this club. Two years from now they won't be here. There will be others in their place either through the farm system, free agency or trades.

I have never seen how one site over reacts to signing an average major league ballplayer at a two year deal that doesn't financially strap the franchise. Now if the Reds went out and signed Manny Ramirez to a four year deal for 100 million, I can understand the outrage.

[WMR]

BLEEPING pathetic

[WMR]

Originally Posted by krusty

it depends. It is only a two-year deal. If the reds are paying more per season than what they paid corey patterson, i would be surprised. Plus, it didn't cost any personnel in regards to a trade.

As mentioned, i could see the reds signing baldelli and/or still trading for jermaine dye. Either way, the reds aren't in rebuilding mode.

ONLY TWO YEARS??!?!?!?!?!?!??

lmao

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by Krusty

If you can name me one free agent outfielder that we could have put in the leadoff spot, let me know. And while everyone is on the Chris Dickerson's band wagon, obviously the Reds front office isn't. And to annoint a player a starting job based on 100 ABs, that is risky IMO.

So you hedge your bets with a career .668 OPS, coming off of a year of .604 OPS?

Okay, so it's not as risky anymore, instead it's just guaranteed suck.

The risk with Dickerson is that he might struggle and be as bad as Taveras. Now we have that in stone. We're supposed to be excited about that?

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by icehole3

I dont get all the belly aching and I never will so please spare me all the saber metric stuff, I guess the argument is he doesnt get on base, he cant steal first, OK I get that, I understand that, but after watching 4 or 5 years of trying to slug their ways to wins, why cant people be at least a little patient with the Reds and let them try to win with defense, it won them a title in 1990, matter of fact as I was looking at the old 1990 Reds, I realized Billy Hatcher who's a beloved Reds hero had a .327OBP... "O my gosh!" Could it be you can have a leadoff hitter who has an OBP that low... no way.

Low OBPs that lead their teams to titles, not saying Taveras will do that, can he help lead the Reds to .500 because thats about where the Reds are headed if you wanna be realistic, why not?

2008 Willy Taveras .308

1990 Billy Hatcher .327
1995 Marquis Grissom .317
2001 Tony Womack .307
2002 Darin Erstad .313

Maybe if the Reds had Eric Davis, Barry Larkin, Chris Sabo, Marianno Duncan, Paul O'Neal and other great hitters and fielders surrounding Willy Taveras your argument would be applicable. Keep in mind also that 1990 was a different era when large astroturf fields and smaller players led to much less offense than is required in today's game of baseball.

You simply can't have an out machine at the top of the lineup if you want to score runs these days.

[pahster]

Unacceptable.

[icehole3]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

That's like saying eating at McDonalds and saying "I don't understand all this belly aching over why the food is so bad, and spare me all the nutritional information."

When you eat at McD's you know going in that youre eating processed poison, who doesnt know that already? So getting Taveras the Reds are saying we're going to try something different, anytime you do that people will jump off the bandwagon and as soon as the first winning streak starts you and I will go "WOW."

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by icehole3

I dont get all the belly aching and I never will so please spare me all the saber metric stuff, I guess the argument is he doesnt get on base, he cant steal first, OK I get that, I understand that, but after watching 4 or 5 years of trying to slug their ways to wins, why cant people be at least a little patient with the Reds and let them try to win with defense, it won them a title in 1990, matter of fact as I was looking at the old 1990 Reds, I realized Billy Hatcher who's a beloved Reds hero had a .327OBP... "O my gosh!" Could it be you can have a leadoff hitter who has an OBP that low... no way.

Low OBPs that lead their teams to titles, not saying Taveras will do that, can he help lead the Reds to .500 because thats about where the Reds are headed if you wanna be realistic, why not?

2008 Willy Taveras .308

1990 Billy Hatcher .327
1995 Marquis Grissom .317
2001 Tony Womack .307
2002 Darin Erstad .313

Thank you. A bit of optimism. I agree that .308 is very poor, but it's also been his worst season to date.

2005: .325
2006: .333
2007: .367

Are any of those great? No, but considering his other attributes, I'd take it for a 2 year FA signing. If he does flame out, it's only cost us cash. But it's still bought us time for the kids to develop on the farm. And the defensive improvement can only bolster the development of our young pitching.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by SteelSD

So the player with a career OPS+ of 102 "backs up" the guy with a career OPS+ of 72? How exactly does a team win ballgames while doing that?

Because Wily Taveras has proven he can handle hitting leadoff. If Baldelli tries that his head might explode.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by icehole3

I dont get all the belly aching and I never will so please spare me all the saber metric stuff, I guess the argument is he doesnt get on base, he cant steal first, OK I get that, I understand that, but after watching 4 or 5 years of trying to slug their ways to wins, why cant people be at least a little patient with the Reds and let them try to win with defense, it won them a title in 1990, matter of fact as I was looking at the old 1990 Reds, I realized Billy Hatcher who's a beloved Reds hero had a .327OBP... "O my gosh!" Could it be you can have a leadoff hitter who has an OBP that low... no way.

Low OBPs that lead their teams to titles, not saying Taveras will do that, can he help lead the Reds to .500 because thats about where the Reds are headed if you wanna be realistic, why not?

2008 Willy Taveras .308

1990 Billy Hatcher .327
1995 Marquis Grissom .317
2001 Tony Womack .307
2002 Darin Erstad .313

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Krusty

I have never seen how one site over reacts to signing an average major league ballplayer at a two year deal that doesn't financially strap the franchise.

If you feel Willy Taveras is an "average" major league ballplayer, then the issue is with your ability to evaluate players and not with the reactions of the majority.

And, furthermore, even if we accepted your description of Taveras as such (which I don't for a second), this is a team that finished 100 runs down in the run differential last year AND lost their biggest run producer. They don't need average ballplayers, they need GOOD and GREAT ballplayers if they even want to touch a .500 record in the next decade.

This signing sucks, flat out.

[pahster]

Originally Posted by icehole3

When you eat at McD's you know going in that youre eating processed poison, who doesnt know that already? So getting Taveras the Reds are saying we're going to try something different, anytime you do that people will jump off the bandwagon and as soon as the first winning streak starts you and I will go "WOW."

How is acquiring a crappy player "trying something different?" Seems awfully familiar to me.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by icehole3

When you eat at McD's you know going in that youre eating processed poison, who doesnt know that already? So getting Taveras the Reds are saying we're going to try something different, anytime you do that people will jump off the bandwagon and as soon as the first winning streak starts you and I will go "WOW."

No... the Reds should know that Taveras is the MLB equivalent of McDonald's, but they've fooled themselves into thinking he's Zagat rated somehow. Honestly, I would rather have seen them re-sign Corey Patterson than to sign Willy T. At least Corey plays defense well.