Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Austin Kearns

So you hedge your bets with a career .668 OPS, coming off of a year of .604 OPS?

Okay, so it's not as risky anymore, instead it's just guaranteed suck.

The risk with Dickerson is that he might struggle and be as bad as Taveras. Now we have that in stone. We're supposed to be excited about that?

Even if Dickerson tears the cover off the ball, this team badly lacked depth in the outfield. They took Freel and Patterson's contracts off the books. Now who the heck would you rather have.......Freel and Patterson for 2009 or a cheaper Dickerson/Taveras?

You put Dickerson out there with Bruce, you still need a third outfielder. And who are the backups? If acquiring Willy Taveras leads to the demise of the Cincinnati Reds, I will be gladly give up my love for baseball.

[WMR]

LOL Taveras is the MLB equivalent of deliberately living under power lines when cancer already runs in both sides of your family.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Krusty

Even if Dickerson tears the cover off the ball, this team badly lacked depth in the outfield. They took Freel and Patterson's contracts off the books. Now who the heck would you rather have.......Freel and Patterson for 2009 or a cheaper Dickerson/Taveras?

You put Dickerson out there with Bruce, you still need a third outfielder. And who are the backups? If acquiring Willy Taveras leads to the demise of the Cincinnati Reds, I will be gladly give up my love for baseball.

woo hoo depth. who cares if the players are garbage, now we have depth

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Thank you. A bit of optimism. I agree that .308 is very poor, but it's also been his worst season to date

Maybe if I post this here, someone else will read it.

Credit goes to Raisor (as credit should for all great developments in baseball thought and life):

How about if I can show that 08 was just Willy returning to his norm?

Let me use a slightly different number, RC per 100 PA.

05 11.01 (66.06 per 600 pa)
06 11.11 (66.66 per 600 pa)
07 14.09 (84.54 per 600 pa)
08 10.54 (63.24 per 600 PA)

[westofyou]

Don Quixote had an easier job than the one Krusty is undertaking, equally fruitless, but easier.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

If you feel Willy Taveras is an "average" major league ballplayer, then the issue is with your ability to evaluate players and not with the reactions of the majority.

And, furthermore, even if we accepted your description of Taveras as such (which I don't for a second), this is a team that finished 100 runs down in the run differential last year AND lost their biggest run producer. They don't need average ballplayers, they need GOOD and GREAT ballplayers if they even want to touch a .500 record in the next decade.

This signing sucks, flat out.

And who on this website is a great talent evalutor? I know I'm not. And probably the majority on this board. Are you telling me you're better than the baseball scouts that this organization pays a yearly salary? If you think so, I suggest getting away from the computer and start putting your resume together and submit it to the Cincinnati Reds Human Resources Department.

[icehole3]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Maybe if the Reds had Eric Davis, Barry Larkin, Chris Sabo, Marianno Duncan, Paul O'Neal and other great hitters and fielders surrounding Willy Taveras your argument would be applicable. Keep in mind also that 1990 was a different era when large astroturf fields and smaller players led to much less offense than is required in today's game of baseball.

You simply can't have an out machine at the top of the lineup if you want to score runs these days.

What? So Hatchers outs didnt count? Youre calling those guys great, they were very good but I dont see any HOFs in that group other than Larkin, ED couldnt stay healthy or wouldve maybe made HOF, please dont discount Hatchers outs because theyre already in the books my friend.

[guttle11]

Lots of drama queens in here. Save us Chris Denorfia, you're our only hope!

How I see it? We now have two guys who can play centerfield, and create with their speed when they get on base (BUT HE NEVER GETS ON BASE!!!11!!oneuno). Defense is looking pretty strong. Could be very strong based on how the SS position sorts itself out.

We also have a young, pretty good rotation, a good young core of hitters, and the makings of a pretty respectable bullpen. We have nice prospects waiting in the wings.

Come off the bridge, folks. It's not that bad.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Seriously, if Tavares is the answer, what is the question?

How can you make your team worse by giving away 500 PA's to a horrible baseball player?

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by Krusty

Even if Dickerson tears the cover off the ball, this team badly lacked depth in the outfield. They took Freel and Patterson's contracts off the books. Now who the heck would you rather have.......Freel and Patterson for 2009 or a cheaper Dickerson/Taveras?

You put Dickerson out there with Bruce, you still need a third outfielder. And who are the backups? If acquiring Willy Taveras leads to the demise of the Cincinnati Reds, I will be gladly give up my love for baseball.

I think they'd do better to bring up Stubbs, Dorn, or Frazier a bit early. They'd be cheaper, hit for more power, and probably put up better OBP numbers as well. Willy Taveras adds nothing positive to this roster IMO.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by guttle11

Lots of drama queens in here. Save us Chris Denorfia, you're our only hope!

How I see it? We now have two guys who can play centerfield, and create with their speed when they get on base (BUT HE NEVER GETS ON BASE!!!11!!oneuno). Defense is looking pretty strong. Could be very strong based on how the SS position sorts itself out.

We also have a young, pretty good rotation, a good young core of hitters, and the makings of a pretty respectable bullpen. We have nice prospects waiting in the wings.

Come off the bridge, folks. It's not that bad.

Except Taveras doesn't even play a good defensive centerfield.

This deal IS that bad.

And what's worse, it states unequivocally, YET AGAIN, that this franchise remains stuck ideologically in the 1960s.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by guttle11

How I see it? We now have two guys who can play centerfield, and create with their speed when they get on base (BUT HE NEVER GETS ON BASE!!!11!!oneuno). Defense is looking pretty strong. Could be very strong based on how the SS position sorts itself out.

Not sure if you are pointing out the weakness of your own argument in parentheses there... but you are right, HE NEVER GETS ON BASE. Speed cannot "create" anything unless it avoids outs.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Wow, what a depressing lot. Can NOBODY remain optimistic? Last year was Taveras' worst year. A down year. Why can't anybody see him making improvements?

The numbers have been posted time and time again. Even his "good" years are bad.

He's never scored more runs than an average Center Fielder. Never.

[Jpup]

I'm glad the Yankees are my 2nd team. Walt Jocketty, more of the same.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Maybe if I post this here, someone else will read it.

Credit goes to Raisor (as credit should for all great developments in baseball thought and life):

Thanks for saving me the energy. I'm going to guess it gets ignored like the 15 other times I posted it.

Don't blame me, I voted for DePo.