Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

[chicoruiz]

Hey, at least we bought low on this guy. If 2008 was an aberration, I'm OK with it; any of his other season totals would be just fine with me. We needed outfielders; we got a career .280 hitter with plus-plus speed and didn't give up a player to get him. I'm with Krusty; I don't see any reason for the multi-page crying jag here.

[Screwball]

I just don't get it. How do you buid a perennial powerhouse that is the St. Louis Cardinals, and then decide that Willy Taveras is a good signing?? It really doesn't add up.

[TRF]

2007 was the aberrration. 2008 was his career norm. All 2008 had was a gaudy SB total.

I loathe the Willy Taveras signing. ©

[OnBaseMachine]

Just a stupid move. Dickerson could have provided better defense and offense at a cheaper price. The fact that it's a two year deal makes it even worse.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by chicoruiz

Hey, at least we bought low on this guy. If 2008 was an aberration, I'm OK with it; any of his other season totals would be just fine with me. We needed outfielders; we got a career .280 hitter with plus-plus speed and didn't give up a player to get him. I'm with Krusty; I don't see any reason for the multi-page crying jag here.

How about if I can show that 08 was just Willy returning to his norm?

Let me use a slightly different number, RC per 100 PA.

05 11.01 (66.06 per 600 pa)
06 11.11 (66.66 per 600 pa)
07 14.09 (84.54 per 600 pa)
08 10.54 (63.24 per 600 PA)

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Screwball

I just don't get it. How do you buid a perennial powerhouse that is the St. Louis Cardinals, and then decide that Willy Taveras is a good signing?? It really doesn't add up.

It's an inside job, Jocketty's still on the Cardinals payroll to take the Reds down from within.

[OnBaseMachine]

Jocketty said the Reds remain in pursuit of a left fielder, “And we’re still trying to sign Jerry Hairston Jr. and he can play some out there in left.”

There was a story this week that Sammy Sosa says he wants to play major-league baseball this year and when Jocketty was kiddingly asked if the Reds were interested in Sosa, he said, “Don’t think so. And I don’t think (manager) Dusty Baker wants him.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/con...incinnatireds/

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

“And we’re still trying to sign Jerry Hairston Jr. and he can play some out there in left.”

........

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

It's an inside job, Jocketty's still on the Cardinals payroll to take the Reds down from within.

It all comes together...

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by chicoruiz

Hey, at least we bought low on this guy. If 2008 was an aberration, I'm OK with it; any of his other season totals would be just fine with me. We needed outfielders; we got a career .280 hitter with plus-plus speed and didn't give up a player to get him. I'm with Krusty; I don't see any reason for the multi-page crying jag here.

That's what I think too. But since batting average doesn't mean ANYTHING...we're forced to ignore the .280 average.

The way I look at it, his lack of power is compensated somewhat by his basestealing skills. Those singles are turned into doubles and triples after the SB's essentially. Sometimes I think people here put too much emphasis on the value of a walk. They'll put a higher value on a player who walks a lot but has a low BA than a player who walks very little but has a higher BA even if put together their OBP is identicle. *shrugs*

[mth123]

Originally Posted by TRF

I don't see the Reds signing a LF now. Dickerson isn't the bat off the bench, he's the LF.

The Reds replaced Adam Dunn with Chris Dickerson.

The Reds replaced Corey Patterson with Willy Taveras.

and got weaker at BOTH positions.

I like Dickerson a lot. But if he's the LF with Taveras in CF, then the Reds better be saving some dough for the first pick in the 2010 draft.

I think with this signing, the team was mathematically eliminated from play-off contention.

Personally, I'd still sign an IF and move EdE or Votto to LF at this point. Lost year, see if there is room for everyone with potential. I think an Eric Hinske/Jeff Keppinger platoon at 3B with EdE in LF wouldn't be bad. Hinske will probably OPS around .820 or so against RHP (maybe more with the move to the NL and GABP) and while I'm on record as being an anti-Kepp guy, he does kill lefties. Hinske is no great glove, but the defense at 3B will be improved a lot when he is in there against RHP (most of the time). It'll be worse against lefties with Kepp though, but Kepp could OPS .900 against lefties. A Hinske/Kepp platoon with EdE in LF may actually add more offense than anyone the team could realistically acquire. Having Dickerson around as a plus defender for late in the game is a nice safety net for trying one of those guys out there.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

That's what I think too. But since batting average doesn't mean ANYTHING...we're forced to ignore the .280 average.

The way I look at it, his lack of power is compensated somewhat by his basestealing skills. Those singles are turned into doubles and triples after the SB's essentially. Sometimes I think people here put too much emphasis on the value of a walk. They'll put a higher value on a player who walks a lot but has a low BA than a player who walks very little but has a higher BA even if put together their OBP is identicle. *shrugs*

Two questions:

1. Does Willy Taveras do a good job of avoiding Outs?

2. Does Willy Taveras acquire a lot of bases while avoiding Outs?

If the answer to both is "No", then you have a bad baseball player on your hands. And we know the answer to both is "No". Doesn't matter what your Batting Average is if you can't avoid outs at an acceptable clip unless you run into a luck-driven .371 BABIP.

[blumj]

Originally Posted by mth123

I like Dickerson a lot. But if he's the LF with Taveras in CF, then the Reds better be saving some dough for the first pick in the 2010 draft.

I think with this signing, the team was mathematically eliminated from play-off contention.

Personally, I'd still sign an IF and move EdE or Votto to LF at this point. Lost year, see if there is room for everyone with potential. I think an Eric Hinske/Jeff Keppinger platoon at 3B with EdE in LF wouldn't be bad. Hinske will probably OPS around .820 or so against RHP (maybe more with the move to the NL and GABP) and while I'm on record as being an anti-Kepp guy, he does kill lefties. Hinske is no great glove, but the defense at 3B will be improved a lot when he is in there against RHP (most of the time). It'll be worse against lefties with Kepp though, but Kepp could OPS .900 against lefties. A Hinske/Kepp platoon with EdE in LF may actually add more offense than anyone the team could realistically acquire. Having Dickerson around as a plus defender for late in the game is a nice safety net for trying one of those guys out there.

Eric Hinske's started 9 games at 3rd base since 2004.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

They'll put a higher value on a player who walks a lot but has a low BA than a player who walks very little but has a higher BA even if put together their OBP is identicle. *shrugs*

"Ya'll" will put a higher value on a player that doesn't walk alot but has a high BA than a player who walks more but has a lower BA even if put together their OBP is identicle. *shrugs*

[LoganBuck]

Is this a freaking joke?

How on earth can you possibly justify this? This team traded away Ryan Freel, and let Corey Patterson walk, and then went out and found the only player in the league that is a downgrade. Seriously did someone steal Walt's cellphone at a Christmas party?

The general public caught on to how bad Corey Patterson was, perhaps the masses will again get to share their displeasure. Especially given that Dickerson is a FAR superior player.