Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by Raisor

"Ya'll" will put a higher value on a player that doesn't walk alot but has a high BA than a player who walks more but has a lower BA even if put together their OBP is identicle. *shrugs*

You misspelled identikul.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Screwball

I just don't get it. How do you buid a perennial powerhouse that is the St. Louis Cardinals, and then decide that Willy Taveras is a good signing?? It really doesn't add up.

He traded for Mark McGwire and the HR chase that followed made the Cardinals a financial powerhouse. Then he stumbled into Albert Pujols to keep it going. It enabled bringing in the likes of Edmonds and Rolen.

I think FCB is right, this team is not going to spend big bucks right now and is filling in with cheap guys that will actually agree to play here (i.e. have few other options at this point). I'm starting to believe it is the real reason that Adam Dunn is no longer a Red. He didn't want to stay IMO. Hairston's limited success in 2008 opened some doors elsewhere and now apparantly he won't even come back.

The team really needs to find a way to keep all its best home grown guys and that may mean that position changes for EdE and Votto are in order to make room for Alonso and Frazier. I don't see impact acquisitions in this team's future unless it come from dealing Harang and Arroyo for young guys who turn out to be studs.

[Raisor]

You know, I wish there was some stat that was easy to look at to get a good idea on how a player produces on offense. It would need to be something the common internet fan could find in about 30 seconds on ESPN.com if they wanted. It would also need to be really accurate (about 98% would work). It would pretty much include everything you needed to know about a player (inlcuding scrappy things like SB and CS).

[TRF]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

That's what I think too. But since batting average doesn't mean ANYTHING...we're forced to ignore the .280 average.

The way I look at it, his lack of power is compensated somewhat by his basestealing skills. Those singles are turned into doubles and triples after the SB's essentially. Sometimes I think people here put too much emphasis on the value of a walk. They'll put a higher value on a player who walks a lot but has a low BA than a player who walks very little but has a higher BA even if put together their OBP is identicle. *shrugs*

When you have NO POWER, getting on base is your biggest weapon. You cannot steal 1st. The ability to take a walk is very important, and for a guy with Taveras game, he needs to BB 50+ times a season just to be freaking AVERAGE. Never mind the fact that despite what Jocketty says, all defensive metrics show him to be below average.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by Raisor

"Ya'll" will put a higher value on a player that doesn't walk alot but has a high BA than a player who walks more but has a lower BA even if put together their OBP is identicle. *shrugs*

If by "Ya'll" you mean me, then the answer is yes. While the 2 get on base at the exact same pace in terms of OBP, I value the hit over the walk. The hit has more value. It advances runners, puts pressure on the defense and creates more options for the manager. But I don't undervalue the walk. Many here simply OVERvalue it. Just like many here OVERvalued Dunn.

[pahster]

Originally Posted by Raisor

You know, I wish there was some stat that was easy to look at to get a good idea on how a player produces on offense. It would need to be something the common internet fan could find in about 30 seconds on ESPN.com if they wanted. It would also need to be really accurate (about 98% would work). It would pretty much include everything you needed to know about a player (inlcuding scrappy things like SB and CS).

Whatever are you talking about? :

[OnBaseMachine]

Walt hasn't even sniffed fixing the biggest problem with this team: up the middle defense.

[OUReds]

There are holes on this team large enough to run a semi through. SS, LF, infield defense, pathetic OB potential, take your pick.

Instead of addressing these, Walt comes up with a move that will almost certainly make the team worse.

There are no words.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Originally Posted by Raisor

How about if I can show that 08 was just Willy returning to his norm?

Let me use a slightly different number, RC per 100 PA.

05 11.01 (66.06 per 600 pa)
06 11.11 (66.66 per 600 pa)
07 14.09 (84.54 per 600 pa)
08 10.54 (63.24 per 600 PA)

That's mighty stinky.

I'd rather platoon Stubbs and Dickerson and see what they give us. I guarantee Stubbs would be more productive than Tavares (I know, not saying much) and we all know his defense in CF would be way better.

I don't see anything wrong with pushing our 24-year old former 1st round pick and seeing what he can do.

I'm amazed that someone gets paid to make these kind of baseball decisions. I was pretty cool with Walt, just like I was once with Krivsky, but this reminds me of the day Wayne traded for Juan Castro. Wayne was never the same in my eyes after that day.

Well, I guess now I'm forced to wonder if Walt is clueless as well.

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

That's what I think too. But since batting average doesn't mean ANYTHING...we're forced to ignore the .280 average.
Sometimes I think people here put too much emphasis on the value of a walk. They'll put a higher value on a player who walks a lot but has a low BA than a player who walks very little but has a higher BA even if put together their OBP is identicle. *shrugs*

Nobody ever said that batting average doesn't mean anything.

All hitters have slumps. When a hitter with a BA driven OBP slumps he's just making outs.

When a hitter with a high walk rate slumps he can still avoid making outs by getting on base via a base on balls.

It aint that hard to understand.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by pahster

Whatever are you talking about? :

Well there has to be SOMETHING like that, don't you think?


Wait. Maybe something like this:


[(H + BB + HBP - CS - GIDP) times (Total bases + .26[BB - IBB + HBP] + .52[SH + SF + SB])] divided by (AB + BB + HBP + SH+ SF)

Nah, that's crazy talk.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

It aint that hard to understand.

[lollipopcurve]

I find it a little sad that the season will be nearly ruined for lots of regular posters because of this signing. It's a weird thing.

Personally, I find Tavares entertaining. Looking forward to seeing him play for the Reds.

[icehole3]

Originally Posted by mth123

I like Dickerson a lot. But if he's the LF with Taveras in CF, then the Reds better be saving some dough for the first pick in the 2010 draft.

I think with this signing, the team was mathematically eliminated from play-off contention.

you thought we we're going to the playoffs????

[TRF]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

I find it a little sad that the season will be nearly ruined for lots of regular posters because of this signing. It's a weird thing.

Personally, I find Tavares entertaining. Looking forward to seeing him play for the Reds.

Freel was entertaining. and he could get on base at least. He was a better defender too.