Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by durl

Didn't many people say the same thing last year?

Yep. And we'll keep saying it until we're proven right. :O)

[SMcGavin]

Originally Posted by durl

Didn't many people say the same thing last year?

Yeah I'm sure they did. But for me at least, if I flop a full house with 8-5 offsuit, the next time I get that hand I'm still going to fold.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by kpresidente

Gonzo is the SS. Any difference between Kepp and Hairston is negligible.

Dickerson can't be worse than Taveras, in any aspect of the game. Plus, if we don't get Hernandez, we'd still have Freel, and a Freel/Dickerson platoon is much better than Taveras.

Catcher? We didn't need a catcher. We have Hanigan. Hernandez is a career .750 OPS hitter on the downside of his career meaning he probably won't even hit that figure. I guarantee you Hanigan could at least get close enough to that number to make the move pointless compared to adding Dye (and play better defense to boot).

The relievers would be Roenicke and Herrera, plus one or two of the losers in the 5th starter battle. Maybe it would be a slight rush on Herrera, but I bet he'd be fine and Roenicke is ML ready. Now we're just holding him back.

OK, then under your scenario the Reds are going with AGon, Hanigan and Dickerson as starters with Roenicke and Herrera penciled into the 'pen. I don't know that I like the sound of that roster either. Under Walt's team most of those guys are backups. If Agon, Dickerson or Hanigan falter (either by injury or performance) we're left with very little depth to cover it and it's all in the name of a LF like Dye or Abreu.

All in all, I think Walt might be overpaying a million here or there but really not enough to get me steamed. Nothing like the millions OB and WK blew...yet

Willy Taveras has gotten a lot of abuse around here and that's fine and it may turn out to be warranted but if he improves the leadoff spot on this team and plays a good CF then I hope Walt will get a few kudos, because he spent $4mill to fill a void that definitely needed to be addressed from last year.

I'm a big Dickerson fan and I want him to be given a chance to earn more playing time but as the GM I would not have gone into Spring Training expecting him to be my CF and leadoff hitter.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

I said SS b/c you said "where the Reds need him the most", and that's SS.

... but he ain't a SS, and we have a 3B, so that means LF is his future destination?

So if Frazier is "athletic for his size" as you said, then how athletic is he really?

I think it was pretty obvious I meant either third base or left field.

Frazier is an above average athlete. Scouts have said he profiles as a solid left fielder or third baseman. Which of those two positions he ends up at is to be determined.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by SMcGavin

I think you might be confusing two different camps. I wanted Jocketty to offer him arb, so I did not blame Walt when Weathers accepted. I'm just hoping his thought process was the same as mine, that offering arb was a gamble that didn't work out, and not that Jocketty actually wanted Weathers back at $4M.

What I do blame Jocketty for is signing Lincoln while the arb offer was still on the table to Weathers. Signing Lincoln would have been fine if Weathers was gone. But now they are both coming back and there is no room in the bullpen for some cheap kids like Roenicke/Herrera. All the payflex the Reds had this offseason got spent in the bullpen, which was the best part of the team in 08.

I agree. Brining Lincoln AND Weathers back was a bad move, IMO. I didn't mind re-signing one of the two, but not both. I was hoping they would keep a spot open for Josh Roenicke.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

I think it was pretty obvious I meant either third base or left field.

Frazier is an above average athlete. Scouts have said he profiles as a solid left fielder or third baseman. Which of those two positions he ends up at is to be determined.

I apologize, I didn't know you mean either 3B or LF.

So this begs the question...

If Frazier turns out to be as good as advertised, and Alonso turns out to be as good as advertised, what happens with EE and Votto?

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by membengal

1. Jock was NOT aware of the true budget when he spent that kind of coin, thinking he had more back to make a run at an Abreu or Burrell or whomever; or

2. Jock WAS aware of the true budget and has committed GM malpractice this off-season.

I think the more likely scenario is a third one - Jocketty knew what the budget was at the start of the off season, but that, despite their statement that they wouldn't be affected by the financial crisis, the club decided prudence was probably the best course and the budget shrank. We've seen some considerable contraction of the economy since the close of the 2008 season and it certainly is having an impact on baseball now.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

I apologize, I didn't know you mean either 3B or LF.

So this begs the question...

If Frazier turns out to be as good as advertised, and Alonso turns out to be as good as advertised, what happens with EE and Votto?

Well if EE doesn't shore up his defense this year Frazier will be knocking on the door with EE's FA closing in. I'd say that means EE could be on his way out the door, heck he might be on his way out regardless. If he straightens out his defense enough to be considered respectable and has a big year with the bat maybe they trade he or Frazier in the offseason for a SS, who knows. I'm guessing though that the odds Frazier is dealt is a lot less likely given he helps allow the future re-signing of our core. EE and BP are almost destined to be dealt eventually IMO. Unless the dollars start rolling in somehow.

[_Sir_Charles_]

At some point in time, these corner guys are going to have to be dealt. There's simply no way around this. With EE, you've got Frazier coming up...but that's not all he's got to worry about. Francisco has been ripping the cover off the ball and he's said to have a cannon for an arm. His biggest flaw as been his failure to take a walk, but this winter he's shown strides in addressing that. If he fixes that...Juan might be EE's biggest immediate threat. Frazier has multiple positions so they can be a bit more flexible with him I'd think. But even if EE wades through that minor league wave...he's got Neftali Soto on the horizon too.

In regards to Votto/Alonzo, this is the one I'm simply not worried about. 1B is Votto's spot until someone rips it from his grasp. With Alonzo already showing his desire for the almighty dollar (draft signing period build up for coin), it wouldn't surprise me if the Reds started dangling Yonder later this year and this coming off season to other clubs. While I'd love to hang onto all our great young talent, one of the biggest bonuses of a good farm system is it's use in trading those excesses to fill the holes in the big league club. But one of the things I haven't seen the Reds do that I'd like to see them start doing is looking to trade our excess talent in the minors for areas of need in the minors, trading kids for kids.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Well if EE doesn't shore up his defense this year Frazier will be knocking on the door with EE's FA closing in. I'd say that means EE could be on his way out the door, heck he might be on his way out regardless. If he straightens out his defense enough to be considered respectable and has a big year with the bat maybe they trade he or Frazier in the offseason for a SS, who knows. I'm guessing though that the odds Frazier is dealt is a lot less likely given he helps allow the future re-signing of our core. EE and BP are almost destined to be dealt eventually IMO. Unless the dollars start rolling in somehow.

Will Frazier give us better D than EE, and will Frazier give us a better bat than EE?

Those 2 questions need answered before we give Frazier the 3B gig, ya know?

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Will Frazier give us better D than EE, and will Frazier give us a better bat than EE?

Those 2 questions need answered before we give Frazier the 3B gig, ya know?

I certainly believe he is more than capable but no we don't know. But what I do know is that if Edwin doesn't fix his problems at 3rd base before he becomes a FA he's gone. Because we ain't gonna pay him 3rd basemans money to play LF, unless his bat does indeed go up a notch or two in the meantime which frankly I'm not yet convinced of either.

[durl]

Originally Posted by SMcGavin

Yeah I'm sure they did. But for me at least, if I flop a full house with 8-5 offsuit, the next time I get that hand I'm still going to fold.

We can't compare the ability of an athlete to the luck of a draw.

I realize some people think Weathers has survived on luck. Regardless of what you call it, he's been a solid pitcher for several years now. If he is "lucky," he's sure good at replicating it on a consistent basis.

[Big Klu]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

At some point in time, these corner guys are going to have to be dealt. There's simply no way around this. With EE, you've got Frazier coming up...but that's not all he's got to worry about. Francisco has been ripping the cover off the ball and he's said to have a cannon for an arm. His biggest flaw as been his failure to take a walk, but this winter he's shown strides in addressing that. If he fixes that...Juan might be EE's biggest immediate threat. Frazier has multiple positions so they can be a bit more flexible with him I'd think. But even if EE wades through that minor league wave...he's got Neftali Soto on the horizon too.

In regards to Votto/Alonzo, this is the one I'm simply not worried about. 1B is Votto's spot until someone rips it from his grasp. With Alonzo already showing his desire for the almighty dollar (draft signing period build up for coin), it wouldn't surprise me if the Reds started dangling Yonder later this year and this coming off season to other clubs. While I'd love to hang onto all our great young talent, one of the biggest bonuses of a good farm system is it's use in trading those excesses to fill the holes in the big league club. But one of the things I haven't seen the Reds do that I'd like to see them start doing is looking to trade our excess talent in the minors for areas of need in the minors, trading kids for kids.

I have thought since the day he was drafted that Yonder Alonso is to the Reds what Matt LaPorta was to the Brewers.

[Danny Serafini]

David Weathers may be the most underappreciated Red of this decade. All he's done since he came to Cincinnati is allow runs at a rate significantly lower than the league average, yet some people treat him as if he's carrying the bubonic plague. He may walk a tightrope at times, but he still gets to the other side.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Big Klu

I have thought since the day he was drafted that Yonder Alonso is to the Reds what Matt LaPorta was to the Brewers.

I also have felt this way. If Votto has another season as good or better than the last I am not so sure that Alonso will ever wear cincy red.