Is Carlos Fisher ready yet?

[Boss-Hog]

Please use this thread for any discussion relating to Carlos Fisher.

[OnBaseMachine]

Fisher had another dominant outing tonight: 2.2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K

His 2009 numbers so far: 6.2 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 9 K

I hope we see him in Cincy soon.

[NJReds]

Does he project long-term as a starter? 2-2/3 innings is a long stint for a reliever.

The Reds seem to have a lot of bullpen prospects.

[mace]

I, too, like Fisher. Only problem: When he got his chances in the spring -- particularly in big games -- he was consistently crushed.

[JaxRed]

Fisher had a 3.60 ERA this spring

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by NJReds

Does he project long-term as a starter? 2-2/3 innings is a long stint for a reliever.

The Reds seem to have a lot of bullpen prospects.

He used to be a starter and the Reds shifted him to the bullpen. While the Reds have a lot of bullpen prospects, Fisher is the best of the bunch that isn't named Zach Stewart. He is better than Roenicke. He is better than Manuel.

[schmidty622]

I've always been a big Manuel fan because of his lower than low walk rate. I really like Fisher too. Hope they both get a shot sometime this year, but I don't really see it wqith the current makeup of the pen.

[mace]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

Fisher had a 3.60 ERA this spring

I don't recall the details, but he was front-and-center in multiple defeats. Seems as though there was a walkoff home run or two, and at least a couple untimely blowups.

That said, I like the guy, and trust it was an aberration.

[icehole3]

Originally Posted by mace

I don't recall the details, but he was front-and-center in multiple defeats. Seems as though there was a walkoff home run or two, and at least a couple untimely blowups.

That said, I like the guy, and trust it was an aberration.

he had 2 earned runs in 5 innings, one run was a walk off homer to Toronto, the other was a 3 run homer to Tampa Bay in the 5th inning and the Reds were losing 4-3 and Bill Bray was getting knocked around and left 2 runners on and Fisher came in and gave up the long ball

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

He used to be a starter and the Reds shifted him to the bullpen. While the Reds have a lot of bullpen prospects, Fisher is the best of the bunch that isn't named Zach Stewart. He is better than Roenicke. He is better than Manuel.

Fisher's not better than Roenicke. He's different from Roenicke.

If Burton continues to struggle and goes to AAA or gets DL'd, I'd expect Roenicke to replace him. The Reds' roster lacks hard throwing relievers and if Burton can't fill the role, Roenicke will. Roenicke also was the one to pitch in Cincy last September and has outstanding minor league strikeout numbers.

If a Lincoln or Massett were to be replaced, Fisher might be the one to replace them. Fisher's a multi-inning guy, more ground balls, longer stints. Fisher would benefit from good infield defense, he has definite ground ball tendencies.

Fisher had a great 14 game stint at AAA last year, although Roenicke's overall 2008 numbers for the full season were a little better.

Roenicke lasted until one of the final cuts this spring. Fisher didn't. Reds obviously feel Roenicke is readier and, all things being equal, I'd expect Roenicke to get the call sooner.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Fisher's not better than Roenicke. He's different from Roenicke.

If Burton continues to struggle and goes to AAA or gets DL'd, I'd expect Roenicke to replace him. The Reds' roster lacks hard throwing relievers and if Burton can't fill the role, Roenicke will. Roenicke also was the one to pitch in Cincy last September and has outstanding minor league strikeout numbers.

If a Lincoln or Massett were to be replaced, Fisher might be the one to replace them. Fisher's a multi-inning guy, more ground balls, longer stints. Fisher would benefit from good infield defense, he has definite ground ball tendencies.

Fisher had a great 14 game stint at AAA last year, although Roenicke's overall 2008 numbers for the full season were a little better.

Roenicke lasted until one of the final cuts this spring. Fisher didn't. Reds obviously feel Roenicke is readier and, all things being equal, I'd expect Roenicke to get the call sooner.

Roenicke may be considered "readier" but long term he has some control issues that need to be resolved. If they stay on the same path, Fisher will be the more effective major leaguer. I happen to like both guys and think they provide a nice succession plan for the day when Weathers rides off or is dealt for a propspect and Lincoln is let go. Deal Cordero for salary relief after 09, call-up Stewart and the pen will be transitioned to a cost effective group of hard throwers and the team should have some cash to address the rising cost of guys like Votto, Bruce and Volquez.

Given the Reds lack of multi-inning guys and the way Fisher is pitching, I'd be tempted to replace Lincoln with Fisher right now.

[icehole3]

who would close Weathers?

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by mth123

Roenicke may be considered "readier" but long term he has some control issues that need to be resolved. If they stay on the same path, Fisher will be the more effective major leaguer. I happen to like both guys and think they provide a nice succession plan for the day when Weathers rides off or is dealt for a propspect and Lincoln is let go. Deal Cordero for salary relief after 09, call-up Stewart and the pen will be transitioned to a cost effective group of hard throwers and the team should have some cash to address the rising cost of guys like Votto, Bruce and Volquez.


Given the Reds lack of multi-inning guys and the way Fisher is pitching, I'd be tempted to replace Lincoln with Fisher right now.

Lincoln isn't being replaced, he has a two year contract, the Reds aren't just sending him out for a couple bad outings. The Reds aren't dealing Cordero, a proven closer signed for four years, to make room for prospects.

As for Roenicke's "control issues":

Last year at two minor league levels Roenicke walked 26 in 61 innings.
Last year at two minor league levels Fisher walked 29 in 68 innings.
At least in terms of walks, these two are were equal.

The Reds seem to be trying Stewart as a starter right now, and he is still in High A ball.

In terms of effectiveness, nothing is more valuable than a power reliever who strikes out guys and is dominating for an inning. Roenicke could be such a guy. Fisher will be a different type of reliever, more of a middle innings type who throws hard enough with ground balls.

Fisher could have a long career, he probably won't be as dependent on power stuff which does tend to fade. The question is whether he will be too hittable in the major leagues, we'll see.

For a couple years, Roenicke is likely to be the more dominant reliever. The question for him is whether he can effectively mix in enough secondary pitches to keep major league hitters off balance, we'll see.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Lincoln isn't being replaced, he has a two year contract, the Reds aren't just sending him out for a couple bad outings. The Reds aren't dealing Cordero, a proven closer signed for four years, to make room for prospects.

As for Roenicke's "control issues":

Last year at two minor league levels Roenicke walked 26 in 61 innings.
Last year at two minor league levels Fisher walked 29 in 68 innings.
At least in terms of walks, these two are were equal.

The Reds seem to be trying Stewart as a starter right now, and he is still in High A ball.

In terms of effectiveness, nothing is more valuable than a power reliever who strikes out guys and is dominating for an inning. Roenicke could be such a guy. Fisher will be a different type of reliever, more of a middle innings type who throws hard enough with ground balls.

Fisher could have a long career, he probably won't be as dependent on power stuff which does tend to fade. The question is whether he will be too hittable in the major leagues, we'll see.

For a couple years, Roenicke is likely to be the more dominant reliever. The question for him is whether he can effectively mix in enough secondary pitches to keep major league hitters off balance, we'll see.

Like I said, I like them both. Might be a Williamson/Sullivan type duo. With Burton around and Viola being another hard thrower from the left side and Stewart on the way (likely to be the best of the bunch), there isn't a need for the Reds to have so much money invested in its pen next year. I close with Burton, set him up wth Roenicke and Viola and use Fisher to hold whenever needed (the most valuable guy of all IMO). Guys like Herrera and Masset can fill other mop-up/long man roles. I think Daryl Thompson will make a good reliever as well. I start trying to deal these older guys off this year at the deadline. Weathers on a one year deal is likely to be the first to go. I try to deal Cordero after the season when his no trade clause expires. Since Lincoln and Rhodes (two ultra short stint guys who hamstring the pen IMO) were unwisely given two year deals, they'll probably be around until the middle of 2010. Bill Bray may be a wild card in all of this.

However it plays out, I think the future of the Reds bullpen is bright. Hard Throwers in Burton, Roenicke, Viola, Stewart and to a lesser degree Fisher. A solid lefty (if he can stay healthy) in Bray, a solid all around pitcher in Thompson, an innings eater in Masset and a guy who provides a different look to mess guys up in Herrera. They'll all be cheap as well. Maybe the team will be able to afford its other needs.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Kc61

The Reds seem to be trying Stewart as a starter right now, and he is still in High A ball.

They are just using him as a starter to quicker develop his secondary pitches. Its not in their plans to use him as a starter at this point.