Willy Taveras - 2009 to date

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Play defense better.

Faster, and works the count better too.

Still not a huge upgrade over Hopper overall.

M2 put it best when he said that players like Taveras are very common and easy to acquire.

[WMR]

Placing Dickerson in CF and finding a legitimate bat to play LF would have made this such a better roster. Taveras was just a horrible target for acquisition.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

He is a leadoff hitter. SLG is one of the last things I would look at in order to determine his value.

Problem is that other teams seem to look for SLG from their leadoff hitter. At least more then the Reds do, which is a problem since the Reds have little power anyway.

In 08 the average NL leadoff hitter had a AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS line of .274 .342 .424 .766

Now, this year it's down so far (.388 SLG), but from the previous five seasons the NL avg for leadoff hitters has been .414.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

Placing Dickerson in CF and finding a legitimate bat to play LF would have made this such a better roster. Taveras was just a horrible target for acquisition.

Dickerson has fanned 22 times in 62 official at bats. That's more than one-third of his non-walk at bats.

And Taveras' slugging PCT was .358 before tonight. Dickerson's? .311.

Defensively, since he arrived last year, the Reds haven't played Dickerson in CF. They seem to want him in LF. Have to wonder why.

Dickerson may yet succeed, he's a terrific athlete and I'd love to see him do well. But the old refrain around here that Dickerson should be in CF over Taveras doesn't work IMO.

I kind of like Taveras. He needs to run more and his OBP needs to pick up a bit, but he plays his position well and makes contact at the plate. Whenever a player has no power he is missing a big feature, but some guys can still be effective. I think he'll start to run more soon and will be more of a factor then.

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by jojo

I'm not really buying the "he doesn't hit for power but pitchers fear his ability to hit the ball hard" argument.

Yeah, it's a stretch, I know. But as I mentioned before, I'm a sucker for defending the tough cases.

Let me try another angle.

Most of the Saber numbers that we are using to judge Taveras, work best evaluating a player who is part of more "natural" offense, one that is based on just letting hitters hit away and assuming that the odds will work themselves out in the long run.

I believe that that is the best way to run an offense, however, that is not the offense that the Reds are running. They are running one that is based more on manufacturing runs ("small ball", but I hate that phrase). This is centered around not how many runs you score, but when you score them. It is centered around making the best use of the few runs that you do score. Again, I am not a fan of this method, just pointing out that it is the one that the Reds are using.

Because of this, the best way to evaluate a player within that type of offense, is to judge how well he plays his role within that offense. Within this type of offense, putting up big numbers is less important than doing the things that are needed of you on a day to day basis. Within this type of offense, the leadoff hitter is needed to get on base, run the bases well, and score often.

I think it is fair to say that Taveras has gotten on base at a decent but not exceptional rate, .348 as of today. He has run the bases well, 6 steals in 7 attempts and he has gone from first to third better than anyone we have seen in awhile. And he has scored a team high 19 runs, which would project to 114 over the course of the season.

Granted he only has 4 RBI's which is terrible. But that really is not his role on the team, within this offense. And to be fair, he has only had 28 PA's with man on base so far, due to the horrid start of the bottom of the lineup. However, he has done well in those PA's. .333 .391 .389 with 5 SH and 2 SF. He might not have driven in those men on base, but he is not making a lot of outs, and is doing his part in advancing them.

Combine in the fact that Taveras has reached base or driven in a run in 24 of the 27 games he has played in, and I think it is fair and rational to conclude that Taveras has been a productive part of this team's offense so far this season.

[OnBaseMachine]

After watching Taveras play defense for the first time in person, I gotta say, I'm not very impressed with his defense. He does a decent job at going back on balls but he's horrible at coming in on flyballs. Take yesterday for example. Schumaker hit a flyball to shallow CF. Taveras got a horrible jump on the ball and it fell in for a double. That ball should have been caught for the second out and nobody on base. Instead, it fell in and led to a three run inning. He has great speed in CF but that doesn't help much when you have trouble judging flyballs.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

After watching Taveras play defense for the first time in person, I gotta say, I'm not very impressed with his defense. He does a decent job at going back on balls but he's horrible at coming in on flyballs. Take yesterday for example. Schumaker hit a flyball to shallow CF. Taveras got a horrible jump on the ball and it fell in for a double. That ball should have been caught for the second out and nobody on base. Instead, it fell in and led to a three run inning. He has great speed in CF but that doesn't help much when you have trouble judging flyballs.

I'm not sure why, but he was obviously having a hard time judging fly balls yesterday. I haven't seen him that jittery out there the rest of the season.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I'm not sure why, but he was obviously having a hard time judging fly balls yesterday. I haven't seen him that jittery out there the rest of the season.

I agree. I noticed him having problems with that too.

[dfs]

Originally Posted by Chip R

I agree. I noticed him having problems with that too.

His initial break seems to be the wrong direction at least 30% of the time.

[wheels]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

After watching Taveras play defense for the first time in person, I gotta say, I'm not very impressed with his defense. He does a decent job at going back on balls but he's horrible at coming in on flyballs. Take yesterday for example. Schumaker hit a flyball to shallow CF. Taveras got a horrible jump on the ball and it fell in for a double. That ball should have been caught for the second out and nobody on base. Instead, it fell in and led to a three run inning. He has great speed in CF but that doesn't help much when you have trouble judging flyballs.

Are you talking about that hit later in the game (6th inning or so)?

If that's the one that he barely cut off before it reached the gap, I remember letting out a groan, thinking that it shouldn't have dropped in the first place. It was a terrible read.

In all fairness, I expected MUCH worse from him from an offensive standpoint. It's likely we will still see him revert to being an ineffective offensive player, but the Reds have dodged a major bullet with him so far.

Let's hope Willy continues to have a freakshow type of season. The Reds can't afford a black hole from the leadoff slot. Not this year, with this club.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by wheels

Are you talking about that hit later in the game (6th inning or so)?

If that's the one that he barely cut off before it reached the gap, I remember letting out a groan, thinking that it shouldn't have dropped in the first place. It was a terrible read.

Nah, it was in the third inning. The game was tied 1-1 and Wainwright led off the inning by striking out. Schumaker then lifted a flyball to CF. Taveras got a horrible jump and by the time he recovered it was too late. He dove for the ball and came up empty. Schumaker made it to second for a gift double. That misplay led to a three run inning. I remember that play you're talking about. Willy should have been charged with an error there, IMO.

[Sea Ray]

I just saw a report on ESPN today where the "analyst" was saying what a good addition Willy has been for the Reds and how many teams are looking for speedy leadoff hitters like him. He went on to mention his contract and that Jocketty had found a bargain.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Nah, it was in the third inning. The game was tied 1-1 and Wainwright led off the inning by striking out. Schumaker then lifted a flyball to CF. Taveras got a horrible jump and by the time he recovered it was too late. He dove for the ball and came up empty. Schumaker made it to second for a gift double. That misplay led to a three run inning. I remember that play you're talking about. Willy should have been charged with an error there, IMO.

Misplayed? No argument here.

Not an official scorer in MLB would rule that an error however. It is what it is, a misplayed ball that resulted in a double.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Misplayed? No argument here.

Not an official scorer in MLB would rule that an error however. It is what it is, a misplayed ball that resulted in a double.

I'm referring to the play where Taveras cut off a ball in the gap and then dropped the ball. It happened in the same inning that Taveras misplayed that flyball.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

I'm referring to the play where Taveras cut off a ball in the gap and then dropped the ball. It happened in the same inning that Taveras misplayed that flyball.

OK...I was referring to the play where Willy dove for the ball, "caught" it, then it popped out around the time he hit the ground.