downloading music

[nate]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

I guess what I don't understand is, why is it socially acceptable to get free music by other means, but not downloading?

You're confusing two concepts:

1. "Free" music is just that, free. Therefore, you can't steal it.

2. To me, it isn't socially acceptable to steal music. I know, I'm 40 and a square.

[nate]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

Why wouldn't I rip it to my iTunes? Is that illegal too?

Not if you bought the CD it was ripped from.

However, if you didn't buy the CD is was ripped from, then yes, it's illegal. Just like downloading.

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by nate

Not if you bought the CD it was ripped from.

However, if you didn't buy the CD is was ripped from, then yes, it's illegal. Just like downloading.

You have never ever ever ever ever borrowed somebody else's CD to rip onto your iTunes and then put it onto your iPod?

[jojo]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

What is the difference between me ripping a CD from the library and downloading it?

Fair use rights attributed to the consumer. That's use not distribution....

[camisadelgolf]

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's wrong. Look at how long women weren't allowed to vote. There was a time when alcohol was illegal, too. Downloading music is currently illegal, but I'm looking forward to the day when it's legal, and that day will come. The music industry is mad about it because they're losing money, which is understandable, and they're doing everything they can to fight it. Unfortunately for the industry, they have to adapt, and it's going to be a difficult transition for them.

I've spent thousands of dollars on music in my lifetime, and I've spent just as much on shows and band merchandise. If it's about the money, there are ways to do it without selling the music. The music industry has been greedy for decades, and I think it's about time things get more fair. Music is an art, and if you treat it that way, you shouldn't be concerned about the income.

nate, if I may ask, what is your occupation in the industry? Feel free to PM me.

[nate]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

You have never ever ever ever ever borrowed somebody else's CD to rip onto your iTunes and then put it onto your iPod?

I have.

But it was a CD I either played on, mixed, produced, wrote songs, etc. So, a "comp" copy as it were.

Otherwise, no. I've never ripped someone else's CD. People say "hey, I'll let you rip this CD" and I say, "no, thanks. I'll check out a preview/listen for it on the radio/visit the artist's site and buy it if I like it."

[kaldaniels]

What about going the opposite direction Nate, I don't really have a strong opinion on this issue but I just want to hear your thoughts...

Buy a CD, rip it to my iPod, sell said CD on eBay.

Fair or foul.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's wrong. Look at how long women weren't allowed to vote. There was a time when alcohol was illegal, too. Downloading music is currently illegal, but I'm looking forward to the day when it's legal, and that day will come. The music industry is mad about it because they're losing money, which is understandable, and they're doing everything they can to fight it. Unfortunately for the industry, they have to adapt, and it's going to be a difficult transition for them.

I've spent thousands of dollars on music in my lifetime, and I've spent just as much on shows and band merchandise. If it's about the money, there are ways to do it without selling the music. The music industry has been greedy for decades, and I think it's about time things get more fair. Music is an art, and if you treat it that way, you shouldn't be concerned about the income.

nate, if I may ask, what is your occupation in the industry? Feel free to PM me.

I would counter downloading music is 100 percent legal...if you buy it/acquire it under the proper terms.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

I would counter downloading music is 100 percent legal...if you buy it/acquire it under the proper terms.

Yeah, you're right. I just worded it that way for the sake of typing less.

[nate]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's wrong. Look at how long women weren't allowed to vote. There was a time when alcohol was illegal, too. Downloading music is currently illegal, but I'm looking forward to the day when it's legal, and that day will come. The music industry is mad about it because they're losing money, which is understandable, and they're doing everything they can to fight it. Unfortunately for the industry, they have to adapt, and it's going to be a difficult transition for them.

I've spent thousands of dollars on music in my lifetime, and I've spent just as much on shows and band merchandise. If it's about the money, there are ways to do it without selling the music. The music industry has been greedy for decades, and I think it's about time things get more fair. Music is an art, and if you treat it that way, you shouldn't be concerned about the income.

Sincere apologies but this is some very bad thinking. Starting from the terrible analogy that compares voting rights to IP theft and ending with portraying the "music industry" as a golem of greed.

This in particular:

If it's about the money, there are ways to do it without selling the music.

If I'm a songwriter and not a "band" or "music industry" or "record label" and my income is derived from my songs, exactly how do I make money without selling the music?

Here in Nashville, this is how a lot of people make their living. Not by being in a "band," not by selling "merch" and certainly not by playing for $50 a night at the Bluebird, but by selling their music. And I'm not talking about people who roll up in H2s on "twennies." I'm talking about just regular folks who've had the good fortune to get their songs into a revenue stream.

nate, if I may ask, what is your occupation in the industry? Feel free to PM me.

I'm a musician. Specifically, a pianist/organist/keyboardist/sound designer/mixer/producer/songwriter. And I'm totally not famous except when I'm alone.

[nate]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

What about going the opposite direction Nate, I don't really have a strong opinion on this issue but I just want to hear your thoughts...

Buy a CD, rip it to my iPod, sell said CD on eBay.

Fair or foul.

It's a grey area for sure. As I understand it, buying a CD (or any physical media) gives you a license to the music for personal use. This is probably true for any IP, btw. So, you're kind of "renting" a license rather than owning the music. Used "music" stores kind of exist in a hazy area by buying and selling media. I personally don't do it but I haven't really bought CDs in a long time either.

I think the gaming industry is going through a similar issue with Gamestop and how they sell used games. Gamestop has made a fortune trading used games, the gaming companies make nothing. The gaming companies want some of that money. I'm just not sure how it all should work out.

In the music production world, a smilar situation exists with things like sample libraries, software instruments and music production software. The sample libraries in particular have very strict, non-transferrable licensing rules attached to them that say if you buy it, it's your forever and you can't transfer the license to someone else. Whereas some have a problem buying a $15 CD and potentially not liking it, imagine how you'd feel if you bought a $5,000 symphonic string library and you didn't like it.

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

What about going the opposite direction Nate, I don't really have a strong opinion on this issue but I just want to hear your thoughts...

Buy a CD, rip it to my iPod, sell said CD on eBay.

Fair or foul.

Nate: the "almighty RZ final word on music's legality."

I've got another example though; why isn't it illegal to DVR a movie and then watch it whenever you like, just like downloading music?

[nate]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

Nate: the "almighty RZ final word on music's legality."

I've got another example though; why isn't it illegal to DVR a movie and then watch it whenever you like, just like downloading music?

That falls under the "time shifting" category and is fair use.

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by nate

That falls under the "time shifting" category and is fair use.

What does that mean, exactly? Thanks...

[nate]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

What does that mean, exactly? Thanks...

That means that watching or listening to something after it was broadcast is usually considered a "fair use." IOW, it's OK. If it was broadcast for free, no problem. If you bought it to watch later, no problem. If someone else bought it and you downloaded it from them or a torrent site, problem.