Blue Jays are also taking offers for outfielder Alex Rios & third baseman Scott Rolen

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Call me crazy (and a lot of you will) but I'm not enamored with Scott Rolen. 5 years ago, this would have been great. Now, not so much IMO.

Rolen hasn't OPSed over .800 for a full season since 2006.
EE has OPSed over .800 every season for the last 4 years.

I know Rolen plays much better D, but he's also 34- an age where the D can go downhill real quickly, not to mention his health concerns (he's played more than 115 games 1 time in the last 5 years.)

EE is far from perfect- especially on defense, but he is 8 years younger and makes almost $10MM/year less than Rolen. Maybe I'd consider a straight-up swap, but I wouldn't be excited giving up much more than that.

Not to mention what in the heck does this mean for the team's direction? I assume it means they're going for it all next season, which would entail keeping Harang and any other vets. What other moves would potentially accompany this- would the Reds actually be "buyers"?

If not, it seems like more of the same paradoxical confusion of "contending while rebuilding" or whatever the hell you want to call the past decade.

EE has OPS'd over .800 twice in his 4 full seasons, and will not OPS over .800 this season.

Over the last 4 seasons, EE has OPS'd over .800 1 more time than Rolen did, after this year it will be Rolen with 2 and EE with 2.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

EE has OPS'd over .800 twice in his 4 full seasons, and will not OPS over .800 this season.

Over the last 4 seasons, EE has OPS'd over .800 1 more time than Rolen did, after this year it will be Rolen with 2 and EE with 2.

Sorry, in 2007 he OPSed .794. He also had 10 games in Louisville where he OPSed 1.100 that season. If you want to split hairs, that's fine.

2006: .832
2007: .794
2008: .806
2009: I wouldn't be making any definitive statements just yet. How in the world do you know what's going to happen in the 2nd half?

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Rolen hasn't OPSed over .800 for a full season since 2006.
EE has OPSed over .800 every season for the last 4 years.

.

It is true that Rolen OPS'd .887 in 2006 and since then has had injured seasons where he's done less well. Last year he was at .780 for 408 at bats. This year, he's well above .800 of course.

But EE has not OPS'd .800 for the last four years. His last four years' OPS numbers are (in reverse order, starting last season) -- .807, .794, .831, .744.

Rolen has a lifetime OPS of .872. EE's all time high OPS was .831.

And, of course, there's defense. Happy to discuss that if you think it's even debatable.

And Rolen is only 33 and his contract only goes through next year, so he still should have some juice left, as this year's fantastic start has shown.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Sorry, in 2007 he OPSed .794. He also had 10 games in Louisville where he OPSed 1.100 that season. If you want to split hairs, that's fine.

2006: .832
2007: .794
2008: .806
2009: I wouldn't be making any definitive statements just yet. How in the world do you know what's going to happen in the 2nd half?

Let's say EE gets 250 more PA's the rest of the season. He would have to OPS 1.046 for the rest of the season to get his OPS over .800. If he can do that over the 2nd half, the Reds may just win the division. However, I'd be willing to bet my entire estate he does not OPS 1.046 for the rest of the season.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Kc61

It is true that Rolen OPS'd .887 in 2006 and since then has had injured seasons where he's done less well. Last year he was at .780 for 408 at bats. This year, he's well above .800 of course.

But EE has not OPS'd .800 for the last four years. His last four years' OPS numbers are (in reverse order, starting last season) -- .807, .794, .831, .744.

Rolen has a lifetime OPS of .872. EE's all time high OPS was .831.

And, of course, there's defense. Happy to discuss that if you think it's even debatable.

And Rolen is only 33 and his contract only goes through next year, so he still should have some juice left, as this year's fantastic start has shown.

Rolen is 34. DOB 04-04-75

IIRC there was another great player who played legendary defense but became plagued by injuries and saw a steep dropoff in production right around that age as well. Ironically, he was paid about $12MM/season.

He also had a couple years of fantastic starts during that time as well, despite talk of his production trending downwards. I think you know who I'm talking about. Would you have been happy trading for him?

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

Let's say EE gets 250 more PA's the rest of the season. He would have to OPS 1.046 for the rest of the season to get his OPS over .800. If he can do that over the 2nd half, the Reds may just win the division. However, I'd be willing to bet my entire estate he does not OPS 1.046 for the rest of the season.

And I presume you know how Rolen is going to perform in the 2nd half? If so, can you please tell me what the stock market is going to do the next few months? Maybe you can bet your entire estate on that as well.

[OnBaseMachine]

FWIW, I don't believe the EdE for Rolen deal for one minute. It's funny how only one person (0 posts on Redszone before last night, btw) heard the report.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by Benihana

And I presume you know how Rolen is going to perform in the 2nd half? If so, can you please tell me what the stock market is going to do the next few months? Maybe you can bet your entire estate on that as well.

I said nothing about how Rolen is going to perform in the 2nd half. You're statement was mocking the fact that I said EE wouldn't OPS over .800 this season, and my post was illustrating what he would have to do to OPS .800, and the fact that I don't think it is possible for him to do that.

But if you want to continue to try to mock me to make your point then I guess go ahead.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

FWIW, I don't believe the EdE for Rolen deal for one minute. It's funny how only one person (0 posts on Redszone before last night, btw) heard the report.

Yeah, bogus.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

FWIW, I don't believe the EdE for Rolen deal for one minute. It's funny how only one person (0 posts on Redszone before last night, btw) heard the report.

I don't either, but I think it would be a good deal. No way the Reds take on that much salary IMO.

[Will M]

Rolen would be a good addition to the Reds. He provides a middle of the order bat for 2009 & 2010. Frazier can come up sometime in 2010 & play LF (plus sub elsewhere) then take over at 3B in 2011.

Plus if the rumor is true we get rid of EE (my least favorite Red).

As to what they want i would be willing to give them a fair amount.
EE & a couple of prospects not named Heisey, Stewart, Frazier or Alonso.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

I said nothing about how Rolen is going to perform in the 2nd half. You're statement was mocking the fact that I said EE wouldn't OPS over .800 this season, and my post was illustrating what he would have to do to OPS .800, and the fact that I don't think it is possible for him to do that.

But if you want to continue to try to mock me to make your point then I guess go ahead.

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

EE has OPS'd over .800 twice in his 4 full seasons, and will not OPS over .800 this season.

Over the last 4 seasons, EE has OPS'd over .800 1 more time than Rolen did, after this year it will be Rolen with 2 and EE with 2.

You were saying?

[Degenerate39]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

FWIW, I don't believe the EdE for Rolen deal for one minute. It's funny how only one person (0 posts on Redszone before last night, btw) heard the report.

What about the Key Mastur?

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

FWIW, I don't believe the EdE for Rolen deal for one minute. It's funny how only one person (0 posts on Redszone before last night, btw) heard the report.

I don't believe it was actually reported, but since Walt Jocketty is very familiar with Rolen, and seeing he seems to be active in looking around for a bat, I could absolutely believe he might be on the Reds' radar and this kind of deal could go down.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by Benihana

You were saying?

Alright. I made the bold assumption that Rolen is going to OPS .724 for the rest of the season if he were to play in a bandbox ballpark while making the transition from the best division in baseball to (arguably) the worst, and from the better league to the easier league.