NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Let's hope the NCAA wins this and I think they will.

Let's not. The NCAA takes advantage of its athletes. Ridiculously so, in fact. UofL claimed, two years ago, they were the most profitable program in the NCAA, making $55 million. That did not take into account jersey and merchandise sales (a multi-million dollar enterprise based almost exclusively off the backs-- pardon the pun-- of athletes who get no pay, but are expected to work (60 hours a week), travel, and keep up their studies, and never get in trouble.

Sure, the profitable programs take care of those that aren't so profitable, but why should that be? The university should take care of these "classes", as that is their stated purpose.

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by 15fan

And those "profits" from mens basketball & football go to subsidize the scholarships & operations of all of the other non-revenue sports in a given school's athletic program, including about 99% of all womens' athletic programs.

So if the school "profits", the dividend recipients aren't some investors sitting on a beach. Instead, the beneficiaries are hundreds of other kids who work just as hard in more obscure sports with the knowledge that going pro isn't a viable financial option & thus work towards the all-important degree.

This ^.

In 2006, Ohio State brought in $104.7M in revenue. Almost all of it (except for $2.9M profit) was put back into the athletic program to finance their 36 varisty sports.

From the Sports Illustrated article, "The Program":

[Athletic Director Gene] Smith also believes that, far from being used by colleges, athletes benefit in extraordinary ways from their time in big-time sports. Having grown up in a poor Cleveland neighborhood and earned his way to Notre Dame on a football scholarship, Smith speaks with authenticity when he invokes the "teachable moments" and "character building" of athletes. "I'm a strong believer that sports participation and competition challenge you," he says. "You're the field goal kicker, and the score's 31-30 with a few seconds on the clock. There are 105,000 fans. That's pressure. Once that kicker graduates and interviews with IBM, and they say, 'Here's your territory and sales quota, can you handle it?' what's he going to say?"
My goal is to give as many kids as possible that experience. Not just the football and basketball players."

[Hoosier Red]

I'm of two minds on this. I think I want the NCAA to win the suit, though I see no reason why they should.

Sort of like being a Reds fan.

[AtomicDumpling]

I don't have a problem with the colleges keeping the money while the players get nothing. If the players don't like it they don't have to go to college.

In baseball, tennis, hockey and soccer the player can choose to go pro after high school or go to college and play for free. That is fair.

On the other hand, the NBA and NFL force players to go to college before they can enter the draft. That is what is unfair. The players don't have any control over their lives. The NBA and NFL get a free minor league system, the colleges make millions of dollars but the players do all the work and take all the risks.

So in my mind the blame lies with the pro leagues rather than with the NCAA.

The ironic aspect of all this is that baseball players are never ready to contribute at the major league level straight out of high school. They require years of practice and development before they are ready yet they have the option to go pro immediately. But many basketball players are good enough to play in the NBA straight out of high school yet they are the ones that are forced to go to college -- even though many of them have absolutely no academic skills and no academic interests.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Let's not. The NCAA takes advantage of its athletes. Ridiculously so, in fact.

Do you think Tim Tebow feels he's being taken advantage of?

If the NCAA loses it'll be a mess. How will they decide who gets what? Does Tim Tebow get a million and Miami's (OH) QB gets nothing? What does the female athlete get?

Once you blow up the whole amateur status then we're back to the days where boosters can pay athletes huge sums. For instance Jeff Wyler can pay UC athletes to "work" on his car lot. Then athletes aren't picking between schools, they're picking between off campus job offers. How does Wyler's offer compare to Ford's offer to play for Michigan?

I think the NCAA wins because their position is very clear. All our athletes are amateurs and we treat them all the same. This is a consistent policy. This means that everything goes into the same pot. The few stars finance the benefits for many, many athletes and in some cases they finance projects that benefit the entire University.

If Tim Tebow wants to make money off his name he can do it but he has to give up being QB for the Gators. He can't have both. The choice is his. He has no "right" to play for a college.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

On the other hand, the NBA and NFL force players to go to college before they can enter the draft. That is what is unfair. The players don't have any control over their lives. The NBA and NFL get a free minor league system, the colleges make millions of dollars but the players do all the work and take all the risks.

This has been tried in court and the ruling said that it is perfectly fair. There are all kinds of things you can't do before you're 21. The NBA and the NFL have decided that they want a certain amount of maturity and there's nothing wrong with that. You can run a business and say "I'm not hiring anyone who's less than 3 years removed from high school."

This country is not set up to allow 18 year olds total control and I think that's a good thing. Pushing kids towards college is something I encourage.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

This has been tried in court and the ruling said that it is perfectly fair. There are all kinds of things you can't do before you're 21. The NBA and the NFL have decided that they want a certain amount of maturity and there's nothing wrong with that. You can run a business and say "I'm not hiring anyone who's less than 3 years removed from high school."

This country is not set up to allow 18 year olds total control and I think that's a good thing. Pushing kids towards college is something I encourage.

The courts don't decide what is fair.

The courts rule based on laws, precedents and technicalities -- not on fairness. Usually the side with the best lawyers wins. Who will have the best lawyers, a high school kid from the ghetto or the billionaire NFL owners?

If the issue ever gets taken up by a powerful legal entity then I am sure the players would win. It is pure age discrimination which is illegal in the USA.

If a player is good enough to contribute to a professional team then it is unethical to selfishly make a rule that prohibits him from earning a livelihood. The NBA and NFL do it purely because they don't want to pay players while they develop like they do in MLB and the NHL. The NCAA loves it too because they are making billions of dollars. The players are the ones that get screwed.

We love college sports so we are happy to maintain the status quo to protect our own interests.

There are lot of kids out there that have no business going to college. They are wasting their time and others' time when they could be doing something much more productive.

[WMR]

nm

[15fan]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Maybe sports that are hemorrhaging shouldn't exist at that university then?

Title IX says "hello".

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Do you think Tim Tebow feels he's being taken advantage of?

If Tim Tebow wants to make money off his name he can do it but he has to give up being QB for the Gators. He can't have both. The choice is his. He has no "right" to play for a college.

But he can't. Not really. Tebow jerseys are HUGE in Florida and across the country. How much of that does Tebow get? Nada. Instead, he has to go to school and work full-time (plus) while under an extreme microscope.

Tebow might not feel like he's being taken advantage of, but he is. Without a doubt.

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

There are lot of kids out there that have no business going to college. They are wasting their time and others' time when they could be doing something much more productive.

There are at least as many who are setting themselves up to fail...

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

But he can't. Not really. Tebow jerseys are HUGE in Florida and across the country. How much of that does Tebow get? Nada. Instead, he has to go to school and work full-time (plus) while under an extreme microscope.

Tebow might not feel like he's being taken advantage of, but he is. Without a doubt.

Talk to me a year from now and tell me if he was taken advantage of. My bet is he'll be set for life

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

If the issue ever gets taken up by a powerful legal entity then I am sure the players would win. It is pure age discrimination which is illegal in the USA.

Age discrimination happens all the time. It happens when they card you getting into a bar or casino. It happens when you get car insurance. Your rates will go down after you're 25. These practices are not illegal. Age discrimination is in our Constitution. Just look at the qualifications to be Senator, Congressman or President.

If it was "pure age discrimination", Maurice Clarett would have won his case. I'm sure his lawyers brought up that argument

[Roy Tucker]

I just scratch my head at the notion that employees of institutions that can bring in $100M+ in revenues can be called amateurs.

Something like Div. III sports I could call amateurs.

But once you get to the Div I level where the NCAA gets $6B for mens hoops, the BCS schools get $80M a year for their games, etc etc. , we're talking some serious coin. The performers-student-athletes-employees or whatever you call them are the commodities that make all this money. The better they are, the more money the school will make.

I think its a laudable thing that these institutions plow this money back in to fund other sports, but that really has nothing to do with it. These institutions could easily throw that money in the bank for a rainy day. The fact is, these schools make a lot of money off their players. That sure seems like the job I have.