Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

[WVPacman]

Originally Posted by ochre

yours is the first post I've seen in this thread that mentions anger about EE being traded for Rolen.

Oh my mistake then I must have read it wrong.Sorry guys my mistake!!

[corkedbat]

Originally Posted by VR

A healthy roster greatly enhances this team to compete in 2010. The acquisition of a quality LF/SS put them in a very favorable position.

Two big ifs....but that's not too far away.

Let's say they sign Dye and let's even be generous and say they're able to pry Escobar away from Atlanta (both big ifs in their own right). Even then, it would probably take moving Arroyo and part of Harang's contract to add a big bat.

Their offense would be quite a bit better, but do you really they have the pitching staff to contend or that the dollars would be there to add meaningful pitching after adding a Rolen and a big bat?

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Originally Posted by corkedbat

Ot's not a matter if holding onto every young talent we take a liking to, it's knowing which one's we should hold onto and getting value from the one's we deal off.

It's easy to be smug and say that prospects are over-rated and you should deal them by the ton to bring in major league talent. The Reds aren't fortunate to have the prospects to fill all their holes with proven major leaguers or the prospects to acuire them even if they did.

Fact is if the Reds if the Reds are to contend ny time soon, prospects and young players (along with shrewd veteran acquisitions) are gonna be necessary. Ths francsue will have to plan wisely and use their cash and young talent resources wisely. IMO, today's trade fails miserably on all three counts.

I think you have to let prospects get to the point when they are close to realizing their potential before deciding whether to keep or deal them unless the return in trade is can't miss - rolen is not can't miss and it does not help you going firther.

To me, guys like Stewart, Wood, Frazier and Alonso are about a year away from that keep or deal determination. Whether in the middle of the rotation or in the business end of the bullpen, I think Stewart has the potential to be a solid part of a major league staff.

A team like the Reds cannot afford to squander talent like that on a one-year rental like Rolen unlless they're on the verge. This team only verges on another decade of mediocrity and today's deal is a prime reason why.

^^^^^

OMG, like this guy gets it.

The rest of you (other than Stormy) I don't know about.

Only kidding, kind of. I apologize to anyone I have been abrasive with in this thread. I'm drinking a few beers and the wife is asleep, so she can't hold me and tell me it's gonna be alright. I'm a little pissed, but I'll be okay.

Tomorrow (which is now, but I'll consider tomorrow when I wake up...9-ish) I'll support our newest Red.

But for now...

[gm]

Originally Posted by westofyou

One thing for sure is Scott Rolen eats, drinks and craps baseball. It's been awhile since the Reds had a guy like that.

Votto? Now Joey has a big brother named Scott

[corkedbat]

I think a lot of our fanbase is so starved for any kind of meaningful attempt at change that they're star struck by the Rolen name and not really asking how does this actually help us compete.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Originally Posted by corkedbat

I think a lot of our fanbase is so starved for any kind of meaningful attempt at change that they're star struck by the Rolen name and not really asking how does this actually help us compete.

You.......complete me.

[Redsfaithful]

It will be fun watching Scott Rolen play, I've always been a fan.

But it sucks knowing it's going to be a lot of years before the Reds contend again. It's ok though, I've got practice with this sort of thing being a Bengals fan and all. Hopefully the Reds can avoid the complete and total Pittsburgh Pirates franchise death spiral (they're already half way there as far as consecutive losing seasons go), but it's not looking too good right now. We'll probably need another owner and GM before the Reds do anything, Castellini doesn't have the money or doesn't want to spend it and I don't think Jocketty knows how to win with a small payroll.

Hopefully I'm wrong, I'd love to be.

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by Austin Kearns

I really like Rolen too. I really hate that we weren't able to get him when the Cards did. I really want this to work, and hopefully the according moves are on the horizon.

Probably the best and most concise summation of the trade.

[corkedbat]

Originally Posted by NDRed

Reading this thread you would think that Rolen will need a wheelchair to get from the dugout to third base.

In reality, since being full time in 1997, Rolen has only played less than 100 games in one season- 2005. He played 142 games in 2006, 112 in 2007, 115 in 2008, and will probably play in about 130 games in 2009. And that is the worst stretch in his career.

He is a 6 time All Star, 7 time Gold Glove, and as for his "declining power" he actually has better power numbers this year than 2007 and 2008.

By the way, Buddy Bell was 33 when the Reds got him and he had 3 1/2 pretty decent years here.

What that tells me is there is a good chance that Rolen doesn't finish this season on the active roster.

[redsfandan]

It's worth noting that the splits for Rolen show that there are only a few ballparks where he hits better than in a Cincinnati ballpark. And it seems like he wanted this deal to happen. Playing for the "home team" could give his career a boost. If he's healthy he could possibly be a top 5 3rd baseman when you look at his offense, splits, and defense. It just depends on that back of his.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Puffy

Come on Matt - Jocketty has only overseen winners in Oakland and St Louis. Thats only two places! He's obvious either clueless or just lucky.

He didn't oversee the major league team in Oakland. Director of minor league operations for 5 years and Director of Baseball administration for 9 years. Never won a thing in St. Louis until LaRussa got there, I'd argue LaRussa made Jocketty a winner and not the other way around. The guy is a whiz at PR and running a major league operation from an administrative perspective but not much for unearthing a whole lot of unknown talent. Most every player he ever traded for was an established player, he doesn't seem to like to trade for potential stars. Which is fine for right now but this is why the cupboard was pretty bare when he left St. Louis. How can you draft young talent when you don't know it or don't know that you aren't drafting much of it.

Interesting that he's had sustained success only when he had a HOF manager who is an excellent strategist and a pitching coach turning pumpkins into pitchers. Yeah I'd say that is fortunate for him.

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Here's the contrary argument.

Rolen is only 34. He has several good years left. He is a huge upgrade at third, defensively and offensively.

EE isn't worth too much. He could even be considered a liability given his own contract. The Jays may be less than excited to get him.

Alonso is a good prospect but he plays Votto's position. His potential spot is filled on the roster with a free agent who plays the outfield and hits. Votto to LF was always a pipe dream.

It does seem like a lot to give up. But sometimes you have to overpay rather than stay in neutral.

I'm not thrilled at all, but can understand the deal and at least it should make the Reds better for next year.

I'm a life long Reds Fan too but Good God!

At some point you gotta wake up and smell the coffee. This post proves that you would defend any foolish move the Reds will ever make.

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

He didn't oversee the major league team in Oakland. Director of minor league operations for 5 years and Director of Baseball administration for 9 years. Never won a thing in St. Louis until LaRussa got there, I'd argue LaRussa made Jocketty a winner and not the other way around. The guy is a whiz at PR and running a major league operation from an administrative perspective but not much for unearthing a whole lot of unknown talent. Most every player he ever traded for was an established player, he doesn't seem to like to trade for potential stars. Which is fine for right now but this is why the cupboard was pretty bare when he left St. Louis. How can you draft young talent when you don't know it or don't know that you aren't drafting much of it.

Interesting that he's had sustained success only when he had a HOF manager who is an excellent strategist and a pitching coach turning pumpkins into pitchers. Yeah I'd say that is fortunate for him.

Yep, he never won anything during that one strike shortened season that he was GM and Torre was the manager. That prove it was all LaRussa those other 13 seasons, and Walt had nothing to do with it.

And the Cards farm system is bare right now, because so much of it is on the major league roster. Molina, Pujols, Shoemaker, Ryan, Rasmus and Ankiel are all home grown.

[TheNext44]

Another way to look at the Rolen trade is that the Reds traded EE and Roenicke for Rolen, then sold Stewart for $4M.

Rolen costs the Reds around $9M more this year and next than EE. He's probably worth about $6-11M more, depending on how much he plays.

$4M is a lot to pay for a top 50 prospect. Odds are about 1 in 3 that he'll be an everyday player. If that happens, he's worth close to $10-12M, so $4M is about right, maybe a bit high.

Another way to see how the trade could be considered even, depending on how much Rolen plays.

[Ron Madden]

Let me say this. I like Scott Rolen, always have but I believe this is a bad move.

Rolen is nearing the end of his career, he ain't what he used to be. The Reds traded some valuable chips in hopes a guy in his mid 30's with a history of injuries can stay on the field long enough to improve the defense and provide leadership in the clubhouse. I honestly hope he does but I doubt it.

The Cincinnati Reds need productive players, sad thing is they have a history of not being able to identify productive players. The young trading chips plus the 11 million dollars Rollen will be paid in 2010 causes me to wonder just what kind of production they expect out of him.

The moans and groans about how much Adam Dunn was paid filled the airwaves, local sports pages, blogs and message boards. I'd bet a dollar to a dougnut both Edwin and Adam will produce more runs than Rolen in 2010.


I hope I'm wrong.