Why do we care?

[GIDP]

Originally Posted by Captain Hook

Actually I was just supporting the idea of not falling in love with prospects.I assume your talking about the playoff comment.In regards to that I'm only saying that we would have been better.Not sure where your getting 30 games better from.

If we arent going to the playoffs whats the point of dealing top prospects for players who might help us win 4 extra games? We need these prospects to get us close to playoffs until we get there with prospects and free agents I dont see a point of trading for aging vets.

I think trading for stuff to get us over the top is fine when you are close to getting to the promise land. Scott Rolen isnt the type of player we need to be adding right now, especially for the price more than anything. We should be targeting a little longer term options with our prospects considering our current situation.

[Captain Hook]

Originally Posted by GIDP

If we arent going to the playoffs whats the point of dealing top prospects for players who might help us win 4 extra games? We need these prospects to get us close to playoffs until we get there with prospects and free agents I dont see a point of trading for aging vets.

I think trading for stuff to get us over the top is fine when you are close to getting to the promise land. Scott Rolen isnt the type of player we need to be adding right now, especially for the price more than anything. We should be targeting a little longer term options with our prospects considering our current situation.

We've herd this before.I understand how you feel.But I am curious about what you think of my comment on trading Bailey 3 years ago and how having a legit big league bat in the lineup over that time would have helped opposed to watching Homer struggle the last 3 seasons.

[GIDP]

Originally Posted by Captain Hook

We've herd this before.I understand how you feel.But I am curious about what you think of my comment on trading Bailey 3 years ago and how having a legit big league bat in the lineup over that time would have helped opposed to watching Homer struggle the last 3 seasons.

Because you said you wanted to trade our top prospects for guys like Rolen. I dont have a problem trading our guys but we have to make sure we get the most value out of those guys. Adding Rolen for the sake of just getting Rolen when we arent close the playoffs seems like a waste of talent even if that talent fails. We have time to take these chances.

Trading for long term fixes with our top guys is what we should be doing when we do trade those guys, not for guys that would help us go from barely missing playoffs to playoffs. We did what the Cardinals did with Brett Wallace to get Holliday only problem is we arent where the Cardinals are at the moement. If we were fighting for the division title I could swollow this trade a little easier but I'm just not seeing the point of it right now.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Captain Hook

We've herd this before.I understand how you feel.But I am curious about what you think of my comment on trading Bailey 3 years ago and how having a legit big league bat in the lineup over that time would have helped opposed to watching Homer struggle the last 3 seasons.

Unless we traded Homer Bailey for Albert Pujols, nowhere over the last three years was any bat going to give us the extra 10 wins we would have needed to make the playoffs.

[Captain Hook]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Unless we traded Homer Bailey for Albert Pujols, nowhere over the last three years was any bat going to give us the extra 10 wins we would have needed to make the playoffs.

Pujols I agree could have helped but I'm trying to be realistic.What if we would have included him in a trade for a older CF like Damon three years ago(trying to think of someone similar to Rolen at his same age 3 years ago).You put him in CF in place of what we've had from then until now and I think you'd be looking at a dramatically different 3 years.I'm not saying that a guy like Damon would have put us over the top but it could have improved us enough to be contending around the deadline one of those years.This could have led to further additions.

I admit that Damon was a better player 3 years ago then what Rolen is today but probably not by too much.I'm just trying to make the point that one guy in the right position can make a big difference.It seems like a long shot right now but Rolen could be that difference next year and Stewart is even more likely to frustrate the people in Toronto that follows prospects just as Bailey has done to us.

[TRF]

I watched and read all weekend. I avoided the firestorm of comments, tried to distance myself a bit, and form some rational thoughts.

This was without a doubt the dumbest trade deadline deal I have ever seen the Reds make. It trumps "The Trade".

Thing is, it's totally in character for Walt Jocketty. One can look no further than his past trades. he almost never trades for a young player, and almost always targets veterans. Mark Mulder won 22 games as a Cardinal. Dan Haren has won 69 games and counting. Kiko Calero has turned into a solid reliever, stellar in fact this year. Daric Barton may never be more than a bench player, but that's still quite a haul.

Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire, Eckstein, Sanders, Walker, Juan Encarnacion, Kennedy.

Walt Jocketty prefers a veteran team. Plain and simple. You have to an other worldly talent like a Pujols or Rick Ankiel as a pitcher to crack his 25 man roster.

2008 may not have been Dusty's team, but it most certainly wasn't Walt's. I doubt we see anyone other than WT in CF next year, Bruce will be in right, But I think Walt would prefer someone else. I predict Gomes gets a two year deal in the off-season and is the starting LF. Rolen will be extended at least two years, maybe 3. We could see BP shift to SS, but I bet we'll see another vet SS brought in.

Your 2010 Reds... well just look at tonight's lineup and add Bruce in RF. Meanwhile the Reds best prospects will either be traded for more veteran goodness or rot on the vine.

[GIDP]

I wish they would have went after cliff lee or victor martinez if they were going to trade someone out of the Stewart, Yonder, Frazier group. Thats probably the biggest disappointment for me.

[membengal]

Originally Posted by TRF

I watched and read all weekend. I avoided the firestorm of comments, tried to distance myself a bit, and form some rational thoughts.

This was without a doubt the dumbest trade deadline deal I have ever seen the Reds make. It trumps "The Trade".

Thing is, it's totally in character for Walt Jocketty. One can look no further than his past trades. he almost never trades for a young player, and almost always targets veterans. Mark Mulder won 22 games as a Cardinal. Dan Haren has won 69 games and counting. Kiko Calero has turned into a solid reliever, stellar in fact this year. Daric Barton may never be more than a bench player, but that's still quite a haul.

Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire, Eckstein, Sanders, Walker, Juan Encarnacion, Kennedy.

Walt Jocketty prefers a veteran team. Plain and simple. You have to an other worldly talent like a Pujols or Rick Ankiel as a pitcher to crack his 25 man roster.

2008 may not have been Dusty's team, but it most certainly wasn't Walt's. I doubt we see anyone other than WT in CF next year, Bruce will be in right, But I think Walt would prefer someone else. I predict Gomes gets a two year deal in the off-season and is the starting LF. Rolen will be extended at least two years, maybe 3. We could see BP shift to SS, but I bet we'll see another vet SS brought in.

Your 2010 Reds... well just look at tonight's lineup and add Bruce in RF. Meanwhile the Reds best prospects will either be traded for more veteran goodness or rot on the vine.

Also sat out the firestorm.

What TRF said. 100%. The Jocketty "model" is a horrible fit for this organization. And this trade shows why.