Homer Bailey

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Are either of those close to as bad as Bailey has been?

No. But Homer's not even pitched 50 innings in a season yet. Those 2 pitched for last place teams and both pitched over 150 innings for their teams.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Maybe, maybe not. I think you have to try to get better. I hope that Rolen is surrounded by a few more capable players. We'll see.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by Chip R

No. But Homer's not even pitched 50 innings in a season yet. Those 2 pitched for last place teams and both pitched over 150 innings for their teams.

Don't make sense, Chip.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Chip R

No. But Homer's not even pitched 50 innings in a season yet. Those 2 pitched for last place teams and both pitched over 150 innings for their teams.

That's right. Let Homer throw 100 innings this year. If he has stats that approach either of those then I'm fine with leaving him in the rotation for next year. If he can't come close, then he doesn't deserve it.

Remember those were the two worst debuts of the last 25 years that you can recall (for pitchers that turned out well.) If a guy is going to be good, he should at least approach the stink of those numbers, not the stink much worse.

[fearofpopvol1]

I think it's fair to point out that Harang's first 100 innings at the Show were not stellar and he was older than Bailey was (I think).

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

I think it's fair to point out that Harang's first 100 innings at the Show were not stellar and he was older than Bailey was (I think).

Again, not nearly as bad as Bailey's. A 4.83 ERA and 7.4 K/9 is hardly horrible.

Plus, as has been pointed out many times, Harang's magnitude of improvement is a very big exception rather than a rule. He was barely considered a prospect when he made his debut. No one- not even the Reds who traded for him- expected him to turn into what he did.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by BRM

I don't think anyone is advocating removing him from the rotation this year. The discussion is focused on 2010.

What makes you think I was talking about this year? I am talking about 2010.

[M2]

Originally Posted by Benihana

And FWIW, I live in Boston. There are plenty of Sox fans that wouldn't shed too many tears if they did jettison Buchholz. They care a lot more about Daniel Bard than they do about Buchholz.

Quoted for truth. I don't know a single Sox fan who'd shed a tear over losing Buchholz.

BTW, you and I need to get a beer.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by M2

Quoted for truth. I don't know a single Sox fan who'd shed a tear over losing Buchholz.

BTW, you and I need to get a beer.

That's true. Hit me up over PM. We'll make it happen.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Again, not nearly as bad as Bailey's. A 4.83 ERA and 7.4 K/9 is hardly horrible.

Plus, as has been pointed out many times, Harang's magnitude of improvement is a very big exception rather than a rule. He was barely considered a prospect when he made his debut. No one- not even the Reds who traded for him- expected him to turn into what he did.

I never said he was horrible, I just said not stellar. And he wasn't stellar. Harang was also older too.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

I never said he was horrible, I just said not stellar. And he wasn't stellar. Harang was also older too.

Nobody is asking for stellar. I think a slight notch over horrible would be acceptable at this point.

We can't do much to change Homer's age. Fact is he's out of options.

[CTA513]

The Redsox also have a payroll which allows them to bring in good pitchers instead of having to rely on pitchers that may not be ready.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

Don't make sense, Chip.

I'm not his biggest fan and I certainly don't think the Reds have handled him right but what else is new?

The thing is that he was drafted with the expectation of being the future ace of the Reds. Our Glavine. Our Maddux. Our Hershisher. Right now, he's going to do well if he turns into a league average pitcher. That's nothing to sneeze at but as long as he's here he's going to have the expectations that he was supposed to be a superstar. If that is his ceiling here, is that something that we can accept?

I normally hate comparing the NFL to MLB but he reminds me of a team that takes a tailback out of USC (or Oklahoma or Nebraska back in the day) that is a can't miss guy, has the pedigree and won the Heisman. Then when he goes to his team, he doesn't do quite as well for one reason or another. He's a good player but he's best used as a 3rd down back or a change of pace running back. He's probably never going to be the superstar he was in college but every season people wonder if this is the year he'll turn it around. In the eyes of the fans of the team that drafted him, he's somewhat of a failure cause he never was their Barry Sanders or Marshall Faulk or Emmett Smith.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by Chip R

I'm not his biggest fan and I certainly don't think the Reds have handled him right but what else is new?

The thing is that he was drafted with the expectation of being the future ace of the Reds. Our Glavine. Our Maddux. Our Hershisher. Right now, he's going to do well if he turns into a league average pitcher. That's nothing to sneeze at but as long as he's here he's going to have the expectations that he was supposed to be a superstar. If that is his ceiling here, is that something that we can accept?

I normally hate comparing the NFL to MLB but he reminds me of a team that takes a tailback out of USC (or Oklahoma or Nebraska back in the day) that is a can't miss guy, has the pedigree and won the Heisman. Then when he goes to his team, he doesn't do quite as well for one reason or another. He's a good player but he's best used as a 3rd down back or a change of pace running back. He's probably never going to be the superstar he was in college but every season people wonder if this is the year he'll turn it around. In the eyes of the fans of the team that drafted him, he's somewhat of a failure cause he never was their Barry Sanders or Marshall Faulk or Emmett Smith.

I think you are on the mark. High School pitchers are always a big gamble. Big arms but un-refined. When it works out, you look like a genius. When it doesn't....................well, you know. I think he still can put together a nice career, and he just might "get it" if given a little more time. The arm is still there. My biggest question about Homer has been, "How badly does he want it?"

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Chip R

I'm not his biggest fan and I certainly don't think the Reds have handled him right but what else is new?

The thing is that he was drafted with the expectation of being the future ace of the Reds. Our Glavine. Our Maddux. Our Hershisher. Right now, he's going to do well if he turns into a league average pitcher. That's nothing to sneeze at but as long as he's here he's going to have the expectations that he was supposed to be a superstar. If that is his ceiling here, is that something that we can accept?

Agreed

I normally hate comparing the NFL to MLB but he reminds me of a team that takes a tailback out of USC (or Oklahoma or Nebraska back in the day) that is a can't miss guy, has the pedigree and won the Heisman. Then when he goes to his team, he doesn't do quite as well for one reason or another. He's a good player but he's best used as a 3rd down back or a change of pace running back. He's probably never going to be the superstar he was in college but every season people wonder if this is the year he'll turn it around. In the eyes of the fans of the team that drafted him, he's somewhat of a failure cause he never was their Barry Sanders or Marshall Faulk or Emmett Smith.

So should Homer start dating Kim Kardashian?