Jose Reyes Should Be Traded: Stark

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

I'll third the Hardy notion. He's a no-brainer option for the Reds right now. He's within the realm of their financial resources. He would be under the club's control for the next two years. And lastly, he would not cost the Reds an arm and a leg to acquire.

I'd pay an arm (Mike Lincoln) and a leg (Willy Taveras) for him.

I still think a deal centering on Cordero and Hardy makes a lot of sense. The Brewers were right with the Reds in bidding on Cordero and were actually miffed that they weren't given the opportunity to top the Reds deal, so they may not think the $ for Cordero are out of the question. Cameron probably walks next year and they could let Cordero replace Hoffman. Both teams could significantly restructure in a deal that looks something like Cordero, Stubbs and Lincoln for Hardy, David Riske and the right to guarantee that Jonathon Lucroy is the PTBNL in the Weathers trade.

The Brewers would plug Cordero in as closer while offsetting his salary with Hardy and his near $5 Million and Riske and his $5 Million with buy-out going out the door. Stubbs could plug in at CF while the Brewer save additional money letting Cameron ($10 Million) and Hoffman ($6 Million) walk. That should give the Brewers pretty much money to spend on a starting pitcher.

The Reds would have Hardy at SS with Riske on the DL as a reserve for the pen while still saving $2 Million on Cordero's deal vs. Riske and Hardy combined. Including Lincoln saves them anothe $2.5 Million. The $4.5 Million freed-up should give the Reds the money to re-up Gomes and add a LH counterpart. Lucroy would pair with Hanigan as the catching tandem. We've all been thinking of getting a vet to pair with Ryan, but Hanigan is near 30 and serves the vet purpose IMO. Lucroy would be the younger half of the duo. Heisey pairs with Dickerson to fill CF. Masset becomes the head of the closer by committee group. Willy still gets DFAd. If the Brewers want a little more they could pick whoever they want from Owings, Maloney, Lecure, Rosales, Valaika and Sutton.

Dickerson/Heisey CF
Hardy SS
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Gomes/New Guy LF
Phillips 2B
Bruce/Balentien RF
Hanigan/Lucroy C

The other position player would be an infielder, probably Janish.

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Bailey
Owings or Maloney or maybe Wood or some scrap heep reclamation guy until Volquez gets back. (Ben Sheets might be interesting after a year of rest.)

Ramirez
Herrera
Fisher
Bray
Burton
Rhodes
Masset

Riske would be ready to step into the middle innings after Memorial Day just about the time when whoever busts or gets hurt needs to be replaced.

[RedEye]

Did anyone else think that David Wright and Reyes would be the building blocks for a future Mets championship? It has been a really bad year for them. I'm actually kind of shocked how quickly that team sank. Not that they had anything to do with the injuries this year, but those playoff chokes have to be especially dispiriting now.

[M2]

The Mets would be insane to trade Reyes if he's going to be healthy. In the late '80s Peter Gammons wrote an article on how the Reds might have to trade Eric Davis if the club ever wanted to win anything. They didn't and the team won a World Series. Trading Reyes strikes me as an idea forged in the same shoddy production line. In fact, the 2009 Mets strike me as being quite a bit like the 1989 Reds.

[HokieRed]

Originally Posted by M2

The Mets would be insane to trade Reyes if he's going to be healthy. In the late '80s Peter Gammons wrote an article on how the Reds might have to trade Eric Davis if the club ever wanted to win anything. They didn't and the team won a World Series. Trading Reyes strikes me as an idea forged in the same shoddy production line. In fact, the 2009 Mets strike me as being quite a bit like the 1989 Reds.

I agree entirely. How can you get better by trading an elite player at the toughest position on the field to find one? Larkin might be an appropriate comparison, too. How could the Reds have gotten better at the same stage of Larkin's career by trading him? He was the kind of player you build around, as Whitey Herzog said of him about two or three years into Larkin's career--said he was the one player in baseball he'd like to have as the anchor of his team.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by RedEye

Did anyone else think that David Wright and Reyes would be the building blocks for a future Mets championship? It has been a really bad year for them. I'm actually kind of shocked how quickly that team sank. Not that they had anything to do with the injuries this year, but those playoff chokes have to be especially dispiriting now.

I did. I just don't think those two get along very well. It has been well documented that there was a rift in the locker room between the latin players and the white players. Wright has always been a stand up player, taking the blame for things when they aren't going well. Reyes hasn't and has directed blame elsewhere. IMO Wright is the future captain of the team and Reyes may be used as trade bait.

[redsfandan]

Originally Posted by mth123

I'd pay an arm (Mike Lincoln) and a leg (Willy Taveras) for him.

I still think a deal centering on Cordero and Hardy makes a lot of sense. The Brewers were right with the Reds in bidding on Cordero and were actually miffed that they weren't given the opportunity to top the Reds deal, so they may not think the $ for Cordero are out of the question. Cameron probably walks next year and they could let Cordero replace Hoffman. Both teams could significantly restructure in a deal that looks something like Cordero, Stubbs and Lincoln for Hardy, David Riske and the right to guarantee that Jonathon Lucroy is the PTBNL in the Weathers trade.

The Brewers would plug Cordero in as closer while offsetting his salary with Hardy and his near $5 Million and Riske and his $5 Million with buy-out going out the door. Stubbs could plug in at CF while the Brewer save additional money letting Cameron ($10 Million) and Hoffman ($6 Million) walk. That should give the Brewers pretty much money to spend on a starting pitcher...

Sounds like wishful thinking to me mth123. You want to deal 3 players that you don't want anymore to get a player that would fill our ss hole but I think you're overstating how much interest Milwaukee might have in those 3 players. I think teams would prefer to sign their own players instead of new ones. So I don't think that Milwaukee is so in love with Cordero that they would trade to get him back instead of resigning Trevor Hoffman who wants to be back, will most likely be cheaper, and has been better than Cordero this season.

And Cameron has already expressed in interest in coming back:

After reflecting on becoming the 302nd player in history to score 1,000 runs, Brewers center fielder Mike Cameron said he would like to remain in Milwaukee beyond this season. So much so, that he might consider taking less to stay than he could fetch on the open market.

"I would be willing to make a sacrifice to make that happen," he said. "You just never know how it's going to work out financially. It would be cool, because I like it here. Doug [Melvin, the Brewers' general manager] is pretty straightforward, and it's just a matter of what direction they want to go in."

They may have some interest in Stubbs as an eventual replacemant but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Stubbs, right now, is better than Cameron. Making Stubbs their main centerfielder in 2010 would be a step down for Milwaukee, as far as offensive production, and I bet they know that.

A deal centered around Hardy, Stubbs, and 1-2 other Reds prospects makes more sense to me.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by TheNext44

Hate to be Debbie Downer, but I'm betting big that Paul Janish will be the Reds starting SS opening day 2010.

I think the Reds believe he will be above replacement value, and since that is all he is costing, worth it.

I doubt Walt is high on Janish. I doubt they see him as a long term solution.
The Reds will be looking to upgrade at SS, now that AGon's contract is gone.
They might not find something worth trading for/signing, but they will attempt to upgrade.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by redsfandan

Sounds like wishful thinking to me mth123. You want to deal 3 players that you don't want anymore to get a player that would fill our ss hole but I think you're overstating how much interest Milwaukee might have in those 3 players. I think teams would prefer to sign their own players instead of new ones. So I don't think that Milwaukee is so in love with Cordero that they would trade to get him back instead of resigning Trevor Hoffman who wants to be back, will most likely be cheaper, and has been better than Cordero this season.

And Cameron has already expressed in interest in coming back:
They may have some interest in Stubbs as an eventual replacemant but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Stubbs, right now, is better than Cameron. Making Stubbs their main centerfielder in 2010 would be a step down for Milwaukee, as far as offensive production, and I bet they know that.

A deal centered around Hardy, Stubbs, and 1-2 other Reds prospects makes more sense to me.

It's possible that Milwaukee will deal Fielder this off season for $ reasons. I don't think Cordero is in the works for the Brewers. Also, Lincoln for $2.5M is a really tough sell to anyone.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by redsfandan

Sounds like wishful thinking to me mth123. You want to deal 3 players that you don't want anymore to get a player that would fill our ss hole but I think you're overstating how much interest Milwaukee might have in those 3 players. I think teams would prefer to sign their own players instead of new ones. So I don't think that Milwaukee is so in love with Cordero that they would trade to get him back instead of resigning Trevor Hoffman who wants to be back, will most likely be cheaper, and has been better than Cordero this season.

And Cameron has already expressed in interest in coming back:
They may have some interest in Stubbs as an eventual replacemant but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Stubbs, right now, is better than Cameron. Making Stubbs their main centerfielder in 2010 would be a step down for Milwaukee, as far as offensive production, and I bet they know that.

A deal centered around Hardy, Stubbs, and 1-2 other Reds prospects makes more sense to me.

Except Milwaukee gets to move a $5 Million player that they sent to the minors and a $5 Million reliever who will spend the first 2 months on the DL while adding a couple prospects to backfill for more expensive guys in their walk year. If they want to make a run at a significant starter (say John Lackey for example) they need to free cash somehow and the net reduction by taking Cordero and Lincoln with a CF and while unloading Hardy, Riske, Hoffman and Cameron would make that possible.

They could keep all the guys they have but without money for a starter they are going nowhere. Sometimes teams need to restructure to move forward and this deal allows both teams to do so. I know it probably would never happen, but its the type of deal this team needs to pursue to fill its holes under its budget constraints. I don't think they could afford to package two or three prospects for Hardy.

Enough hi-jacking now.

[JaxRed]

Stark completely disregarded the easiest move to start fixing the Mets. Trade the expensive closer.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by mth123

I'd pay an arm (Mike Lincoln) and a leg (Willy Taveras) for him.

Line of the week.

I agree with your logic. I don't think the Brewers would take back Cordero, at this point. I think they realize for much cheaper they could attempt to re-sign Hoffman than trade to get Cordero's contract. I'm not saying they would not be interested at all, but I don't think they'd really be willing to do much to get him.

[mth123]

NM. Back to Reyes.

[cincinnati chili]

I don't think Reyes will ever become the player he should have become had the Mets handled his development properly. He should have been a borderline Hall of Famer. Instead he's got a career .337 on base percentage (not good), middling power, and can steal bases. Any team that trades for him, including the Reds, will likely overpay for him.