Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by travisgrimes

Wouldnt mind seeing this opening day lineup:

1. CF Drew Stubbs
2. 2B Todd Frazier
3. 1B Joey Votto
4. SS Brandon Phillips
5. RF Jay Bruce
6. 3B Scott Rolen
7. LF Juan Francisco
8. C Ryan Hanigan
9. P

Let Alonso have one more year in AAA and when Rolen's contract is up put Francisco at 3rd and Alonso is LF

I think I'd rather Votto at 3B than Fransisco.... Those arms in the OF would be awesome though.

[GOYA]

Player	        AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	AVG
Bolivar LF	5	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	.154
Heisey CF	5	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	.214
Bruce DH	4	0	1	0	0	0	0	1	2	.143
Frazier 2B	5	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	.308
Francisco 3B	5	0	2	0	0	0	1	0	1	.357
Valaika SS	5	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	.250
Alonso 1B	3	1	2	0	0	1	1	1	0	.250
Ford RF	        3	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	.286
Denove C	3	2	1	0	0	1	1	1	0	.273

Player	        IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA
LeCure (L, 0-1)	6.0	6	4	4	3	2	0	6.00
Kennard, J 	2.0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0.00
Baez, Fe 	1.0	2	0	0	0	0	0	27.00

[GOYA]

Kennard is not healthy

His fastball was high 80s with 1 91 and 1 92

He was consistently 95-96 before his injury.

There were plenty of chances to win this game. Our stacked offense couldn't come up with the big hit.

[GOYA]

Originally Posted by travisgrimes

Wouldnt mind seeing this opening day lineup:

1. CF Drew Stubbs
2. 2B Todd Frazier
3. 1B Joey Votto
4. SS Brandon Phillips
5. RF Jay Bruce
6. 3B Scott Rolen
7. LF Juan Francisco
8. C Ryan Hanigan
9. P

You don't want to see Frazier at 2B

At some point, Bruce's upside has to balanced with what he is bringing to the club on a day to day basis. Dorn very well might outperform Bruce at the plate.

[Redmachine2003]

Originally Posted by GOYA

You don't want to see Frazier at 2B

At some point, Bruce's upside has to balanced with what he is bringing to the club on a day to day basis. Dorn very well might outperform Bruce at the plate.

Why don't you want to see Frazier at 2nd? He can't be that bad since he is able to play short and 3rd?

[HokieRed]

Goya, is Frazier slow around the bag on double play turns? He's unusually tall and big for a 2b man and this is where that size is sometimes disadvantageous. Or is your objection based more on his range? Or both?

[KoryMac5]

Originally Posted by GOYA

You don't want to see Frazier at 2B

At some point, Bruce's upside has to balanced with what he is bringing to the club on a day to day basis. Dorn very well might outperform Bruce at the plate.

I like Dorn as a player and I think he will be a nice player for the Reds but I don't see him outperforming Bruce at the plate ever.

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by HokieRed

Goya, is Frazier slow around the bag on double play turns? He's unusually tall and big for a 2b man and this is where that size is sometimes disadvantageous. Or is your objection based more on his range? Or both?

I've seen him around ten games since he's moved up, so perhaps I can answer. From what I've seen, he's okay at second, but lacks range. He is also learning the position so his footwork is a work in progress. But he's already good around the bag on the double play and his arm will absolutely play there.

It will probably take the winter and Spring Training before he's good enough to play there as an offensive player. It'll take him a couple years to be average or better.

Really, Frazier at second depends on his bat. If he can OPS at 800+, he's worth it. If he's a 700 or worse OPS bat, he's too much of a drag.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

I've seen him around ten games since he's moved up, so perhaps I can answer. From what I've seen, he's okay at second, but lacks range. He is also learning the position so his footwork is a work in progress. But he's already good around the bag on the double play and his arm will absolutely play there.

It will probably take the winter and Spring Training before he's good enough to play there as an offensive player. It'll take him a couple years to be average or better.

Really, Frazier at second depends on his bat. If he can OPS at 800+, he's worth it. If he's a 700 or worse OPS bat, he's too much of a drag.

Seems to me a .700 or worse OPS at 2B is too much of a drag even if he's a top defender. If he's a range challenged mediocrity, I'm not sure anything short of .900 is worth it.

[Scrap Irony]

An 800 OPS+ is worth a below average glove at 2B if he has a high ceiling and is likely to improve at that position.

He does and he should.

Frazier is likely, next season, to OPS around 800, making him slightly above average for all of baseball. As a 2B, that should put him in the top five at least, more likely top three. His glove can play there for that offensive production.

Anything less than 780 and his value plummets because another 2B with a much better glove (re: range) can boost his overall game ahead of Frazier.

At this point, Frazier is the mirror image of Brandon Phillips.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by HokieRed

Bats lose 4-3. Francisco 2 for 5, Frazier 2 for 5, Alonso 2 for 3 with a HR and a wallk. Look for all three in Cinti. next year.

With the wrong guy managing them in Cincy.

[HokieRed]

Thanks, Scrap, for the comments on Frazier. If he can be competent at 2b and put up .800, I'll be happy--assuming Phillips is at least league average or better defensively at SS. I'd still probably prefer keeping Phillips at 2b and looking for a really good defender and offensive player at SS. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Kingspoint]

Let Frazier play 3rd or somebody else. Get rid of Rolen. Rolen's a bum. His .715 OPS that he's hitting since joining the REDS and his lack of range over the last two seasons aren't flukes. It's because he's long, long, over-the-hill. Rolen's toast. Rolen's done. Rolen's not worth the money he's earning when there are several players in the organization that could step right in immediately and do as well.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Kingspoint

Let Frazier play 3rd or somebody else. Get rid of Rolen. Rolen's a bum. His .715 OPS that he's hitting since joining the REDS and his lack of range over the last two seasons aren't flukes. It's because he's long, long, over-the-hill. Rolen's toast. Rolen's done. Rolen's not worth the money he's earning when there are several players in the organization that could step right in immediately and do as well.

Whoa, there. I hated the trade too, but Rolen isn't a bum. IMO, the Reds overpaid in terms of talent and dollars, but he's still a plus player. He's not the impact guy the team needed to get when it went shopping with its top chips and last dollar, but he is by no means a throw away.

[GOYA]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

I like Dorn as a player and I think he will be a nice player for the Reds but I don't see him outperforming Bruce at the plate ever.

I'd say he's doing it right now.