Reds... oldest team in baseball

[TeamBoone]

Why then, do they seem to have the least amount of retired numbers? Seems most other parks have retired numbers plastered all over the place... the Reds? I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure it's less than ten, maybe even closer to five.

[Degenerate39]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

Why then, do they seem to have the least amount of retired numbers? Seems most other parks have retired numbers plastered all over the place... the Reds? I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure it's less than ten, maybe even closer to five.

1,5,8,10,13,18,20,24,42

I don't think I'm missing any but that's 9. Not everyone can be the Yankees and retire every number though

[Unassisted]

I like that the bar for retired numbers has been kept high. Even BBHOF enshrinement is not sufficient to get a player's number retired.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

Why then, do they seem to have the least amount of retired numbers? Seems most other parks have retired numbers plastered all over the place... the Reds? I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure it's less than ten, maybe even closer to five.

Actually the Braves and Cubs are older, but I digress.

The Reds instituted numbers in the 1932 (their 50th year of existence) and had a bad decade until the end and then had about 15 years of non star players on the team. By the late 50's they started to churn out the type of players that get their number retired.

IIRC Marge didn't have any numbers retired during her era and went for the low key approach to the past, she just didn't mention it or try and wrap events or honor around them, she didn't know baseball thus she didn't know the history of baseball. So there was lull of retired numbers as well as lull in honoring the Reds past.

In 1984 the Reds retired #5 and the next number retired was the mandatory #42 in 1997. It wasn't until Marge was suspended that the other numbers were finally started to be taken care of.

But the biggest reason the Reds haven't retired numbers, is that they haven't been that good since numbers started in 1932, having only made it to .500 38 times since then.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Glad that they have left the bar "high." You can have great players without having great teams. Outside of the BRM days, they haven't had that many "truly great" players. Robby and Klu are about it. Still think Vada Pinson was a very underrated player during the period.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Nuxhall's # go up at some time from a "total contribution to the organization" standpoint. He is as beloved as any Red, ever.

[HeatherC1212]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Actually the Braves and Cubs are older, but I digress.

Since when??! I've thought for most of my life that the Reds were the first professional baseball team but your comment puzzles me because that's the first I've heard of it.

Count me as another who's glad that they don't just retire numbers all the time but make the players earn it.

[BCubb2003]

Cincinnati was the birthplace, but that team went to Boston, then Milwaukee then Atlanta. (Although it's kind of like owning George Washington's axe: The handle has been replaced three times and the head twice; is it still his axe?)

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by HeatherC1212

Since when??! I've thought for most of my life that the Reds were the first professional baseball team but your comment puzzles me because that's the first I've heard of it.

Count me as another who's glad that they don't just retire numbers all the time but make the players earn it.

The Reds were the 1st professional team, the Reds lost a game and the fans lost interest thus the disbanded and the majority of the team went to Boston and formed the "Red Stockings" which became the Beaneaters, which became the Doves, Rustlers and finally the Braves.

They were in the National Association, a league that preceded the National League, the Reds had a charter team in the NL, they had money issues in year one and a few years later they were tossed for wanting to sell beer.

They and some other midwest teams formed the American Association (Beer and Whiskey league) they played throughout the 80's.

In 1890 the players in both leagues formed a "Players League" and that essentially ruined the AA as big league because they lost their flagship teams to the NL as it tried to face off the Players League.

The AA teams that are in the NL are:

Dodgers
Reds
Cards
Pirates

When the NL started the Cubs were in the 1st season (1876), only they and the Braves have played continuously in the NL since then.

[BCubb2003]

Originally Posted by westofyou

the Reds lost a game and the fans lost interest

Talk about setting the bar high.

[redsmetz]

Keep in mind, Rose's 14 would be retired but for his ban from baseball, so that's one more (and his number is effectively retired, only his son has worn it since). I assume Larkin's will be retired at some point. Likewise, I've written to the Reds suggesting they retire Edd Roush's "number" (he never had one), much as the Giants have for Christy Mathewson & John McGraw (represented merely with the Giant's old NY letters).

[Jpup]

I expect Larkin's retired in the next couple years. I also expect him back with the Reds, in some form, very soon.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by westofyou

The Reds were the 1st professional team, the Reds lost a game and the fans lost interest thus the disbanded and the majority of the team went to Boston and formed the "Red Stockings" which became the Beaneaters, which became the Doves, Rustlers and finally the Braves.

They were in the National Association, a league that preceded the National League, the Reds had a charter team in the NL, they had money issues in year one and a few years later they were tossed for wanting to sell beer.

They and some other midwest teams formed the American Association (Beer and Whiskey league) they played throughout the 80's.

In 1890 the players in both leagues formed a "Players League" and that essentially ruined the AA as big league because they lost their flagship teams to the NL as it tried to face off the Players League.

The AA teams that are in the NL are:

Dodgers
Reds
Cards
Pirates

When the NL started the Cubs were in the 1st season (1876), only they and the Braves have played continuously in the NL since then.

The Cubs/White Stockings were formed in 1870 as a response to the popularity of the Cincinnati Red Stockings. They played in the National Association of Professional Base Ball Clubs. It really wasn't a league; just basically an organization of professional base ball clubs. The championship - or the whip pennant - was decided by winning the best two of three against the holder of the whip pennant. However if one team defeated the reigning whip pennant holder in their first match - or split their first two games - the latter team sometimes backed out of future matches in order to keep their championship. Which exactly what happened to the Red Stockings in 1868. They split their first two games in Cincinnati with the Unions of Morrisiana (the Bronx) and when the Red Stockings went east to play several teams there, the Unions backed out of their match to keep their title.

While the Red Stockings are known as the first professional team, it's more accurate to say they were the first openly professional team. There were other teams that paid most - if not all - their players under the table since it was against the rules to pay players. The National Association of Base Ball players changed this rule before the 1869 season and the Red Stockings were the only team to take advantage of it. They did make money on the whole with a profit of $1.39 for 1869.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Chip R

The Cubs/White Stockings were formed in 1870 as a response to the popularity of the Cincinnati Red Stockings. They played in the National Association of Professional Base Ball Clubs. It really wasn't a league; just basically an organization of professional base ball clubs. The championship - or the whip pennant - was decided by winning the best two of three against the holder of the whip pennant. However if one team defeated the reigning whip pennant holder in their first match - or split their first two games - the latter team sometimes backed out of future matches in order to keep their championship. Which exactly what happened to the Red Stockings in 1868. They split their first two games in Cincinnati with the Unions of Morrisiana (the Bronx) and when the Red Stockings went east to play several teams there, the Unions backed out of their match to keep their title.

While the Red Stockings are known as the first professional team, it's more accurate to say they were the first openly professional team. There were other teams that paid most - if not all - their players under the table since it was against the rules to pay players. The National Association of Base Ball players changed this rule before the 1869 season and the Red Stockings were the only team to take advantage of it. They did make money on the whole with a profit of $1.39 for 1869.

right, and the NL was essentially formed because the NA was so loose that teams would disband in the middle of the season and schedules were often not played out.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by westofyou

right, and the NL was essentially formed because the NA was so loose that teams would disband in the middle of the season and schedules were often not played out.

Entry fee for the NA: $10

The Cubs/White Stockings didn't play for 2 years because of the Chicago Fire. That kept them from being the longest continually operating franchise in baseball.

"Cities" like Fort Wayne, IN, Elizabeth, NJ and Keokuk, IA were all members of the NA at one point.