Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Balentien does not have a polished resume, certainly. But he does have some upside still and his age is as such that he has room to continue to improve. He's definitely shown the ability to be a good player for the Reds since coming over. And he did have a good set of peripherals in the minors - lending credibility to the idea he could still do it on the Major League level.

I think the comparison between the two is not just about what they are today, but what they could be in a year from now. Taveras would be an asset off the bench for the reasons you listed, but Dickerson is capable of providing those things anyhow, so no need for two of them.

The problem is that he isn't going to get a chance to refine his skills. He's a 5th OFer on this team, getting 5 ABs per week.. He needs to play.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

The problem is that he isn't going to get a chance to refine his skills. He's a 5th OFer on this team, getting 5 ABs per week.. He needs to play.

The same goes for Taveras, so it comes down to this for me.... Do I want a pinch runner or a guy who can hit 495 foot HRs coming off of my bench as the 5th outfielder when even if your premise is right (and I would argue that its not) that both guys are going to continue to suck at finding first base. That isn't even a difficult decision given the roster we have.

[SMcGavin]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

You're probably right that we'd be able to forget about either Dickerson or Stubbs if they consistently OBP'd .375.

Chris Dickerson's career OBP is .383.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking

Unless Walt can figure out a deal for a solid 30 HR/100 RBI LF, I believe the plan is or at least should be Stubbs CF, Bruce RF and Gomes LF with Dickerson as the backup. They may get stuck with Willie T as the 5/6 OF unless they can deal him, but with the budget as it is, I don't think you are going to get any other CF then what is already in the system.

I like Dickerson but he just can't stay healthy, so I wouldn't pencil him in for 500 abs.

I know where to find one without having to give up a lot...

Oh and anybody who is advocating Taveras on the roster needs to realize as soon as Stubbs struggles you will see Taveras begin to get ABs in CF and leading off.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by SMcGavin

Chris Dickerson's career OBP is .383.

Only due to his big 2008. He was something like .373 for 2009.

That being said, if The Dusty would bat Dickerson leadoff and start him vs RHP, I'm completely fine with upgrading other positions of this ballclub.

If The Dusty is going to give the majority of playing time in CF to Taveras or Stubbs, then we need to upgrade CF.

[*BaseClogger*]

Are we really going to hold Chris Dickerson back again? What does he have to do to prove himself for Pete's sakes?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Only due to his big 2008. He was something like .373 for 2009.

That being said, if The Dusty would bat Dickerson leadoff and start him vs RHP, I'm completely fine with upgrading other positions of this ballclub.

If The Dusty is going to give the majority of playing time in CF to Taveras or Stubbs, then we need to upgrade CF.

You do know that Stubbs was a slightly above average center fielder in his time with the Reds don't you? Sure, an upgrade to well above average would be nice, but if Drew Stubbs is on this team next year and repeats what he did this year he won't be anything remotely close to 'the problem' if the Reds aren't good.

[VR]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Balentien does not have a polished resume, certainly. But he does have some upside still and his age is as such that he has room to continue to improve. He's definitely shown the ability to be a good player for the Reds since coming over. And he did have a good set of peripherals in the minors - lending credibility to the idea he could still do it on the Major League level.

I think the comparison between the two is not just about what they are today, but what they could be in a year from now. Taveras would be an asset off the bench for the reasons you listed, but Dickerson is capable of providing those things anyhow, so no need for two of them.

For the most part, I really liked what I saw of Balentien in Cincy. Tremendously improved k/bb rate, good plate presence, solid d, good wheels.

That said, go out and get Jason Bay.

[SMcGavin]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

Are we really going to hold Chris Dickerson back again? What does he have to do to prove himself for Pete's sakes?

I feel that Dickerson is very underappreciated on RZ. I understand the injury concerns with him, and wanting to keep someone else around as insurance. But as long as Dickerson is healthy, he needs to be starting in CF against RHP. If he performs close to what he's done so far in his MLB career, we can forget the "can Stubbs be league average talk" because Dickerson would be way above league average in that role.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

Are we really going to hold Chris Dickerson back again? What does he have to do to prove himself for Pete's sakes?

I don't think anyone is holding Dickerson back from anything. Everyone thinks he's a valuable asset.

But for now, Stubbs is performing every bit as well as Dickerson, maybe slightly better. Stubbs, unlike Dickerson, still has untapped potential to get even better. I'm not sure why you're so willing to trade a higher ceiling in favor of playing the similar floor - and that's nothing against Dickerson, but I believe Stubbs can provide similar production and more.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

The same goes for Taveras, so it comes down to this for me.... Do I want a pinch runner or a guy who can hit 495 foot HRs coming off of my bench as the 5th outfielder when even if your premise is right (and I would argue that its not) that both guys are going to continue to suck at finding first base. That isn't even a difficult decision given the roster we have.

Wily Mo Part 2?

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

I don't think anyone is holding Dickerson back from anything. Everyone thinks he's a valuable asset.

But for now, Stubbs is performing every bit as well as Dickerson, maybe slightly better. Stubbs, unlike Dickerson, still has untapped potential to get even better. I'm not sure why you're so willing to trade a higher ceiling in favor of playing the similar floor - and that's nothing against Dickerson, but I believe Stubbs can provide similar production and more.

In 355 Major League ABs Chris Dickerson has hit .285/.385/.442. That's what you think Drew Stubbs floor is?

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by reds44

I know where to find one without having to give up a lot...

Oh and anybody who is advocating Taveras on the roster needs to realize as soon as Stubbs struggles you will see Taveras begin to get ABs in CF and leading off.

I would rather have a better roster / lesser manager than the other way around. It is easier to replace the manager than the roster.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

In 355 Major League ABs Chris Dickerson has hit .285/.385/.442. That's what you think Drew Stubbs floor is?

And most of that came in 2008 when Dickerson had a BABIP of .410. Dickerson again had a solid year in 2009, but also had a BABIP of .360. Is he that special player who can do that year in and year out? Doubtful. So look at what Dickerson is likely to do in the future. 10% walk rate, 25% strikeout rate and solid defense with 10-15 HR's. That is exactly what most people expect from Stubbs next year, if not with more power and better defense.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

And most of that came in 2008 when Dickerson had a BABIP of .410. Dickerson again had a solid year in 2009, but also had a BABIP of .360. Is he that special player who can do that year in and year out? Doubtful. So look at what Dickerson is likely to do in the future. 10% walk rate, 25% strikeout rate and solid defense with 10-15 HR's. That is exactly what most people expect from Stubbs next year, if not with more power and better defense.

That might even be optomistic.