Who is your Minor League MVP?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I'll go with Travis Wood. 167 IP, 1.77 ERA, 1.04 WHIP.

Easy answer on this one. Wood wasn't only the best pitcher in the organization this year, he was arguably the best pitcher in all of the minor leagues this year. He finished second in ERA in the minors and threw 30 more innings than the guy who won the ERA title by 0.05. Heisey had a very good year. Francisco had a good year. Wood had one of the best years in baseball.

[OnBaseMachine]

Pitcher - Travis Wood

Hitter - Chris Heisey, with Juan Francisco a close second.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I must say, it sure is nice to have so many players IN the debate. Wood, Heisey, Barker, Lehr, Ondrusek, Francisco, etc. We had a bunch of guys really step up this year. And that the list DIDN'T include Frazier or Alonso is also a good sign because we've still got top-notch talent outside of that list.

For my money, it's got to be Wood though.

[mace]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Easy answer on this one. Wood wasn't only the best pitcher in the organization this year, he was arguably the best pitcher in all of the minor leagues this year. He finished second in ERA in the minors and threw 30 more innings than the guy who won the ERA title by 0.05. Heisey had a very good year. Francisco had a good year. Wood had one of the best years in baseball.

I'll buy that and change my vote.

[nmculbreth]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

I must say, it sure is nice to have so many players IN the debate. Wood, Heisey, Barker, Lehr, Ondrusek, Francisco, etc. We had a bunch of guys really step up this year. And that the list DIDN'T include Frazier or Alonso is also a good sign because we've still got top-notch talent outside of that list.

For my money, it's got to be Wood though.

I don't want to diminish their collective accomplishments but the list of players being mentioned as MVP candidates is a little underwhelming. When you look at the players being mentioned you see a bunch of marginal prospects (Wood, Heisey, Francisco, Ondrusek) and non-prospects (Lehr, Barker). Even after having great seasons, none of the above are locks to be considered top 100 prospects and I'd be surprised if any of them were to crack the top 50.

Outside of Alonso and Leake, there isn't a whole lot of top end talent in the system and it seems like a lot of the young, high ceiling players (Sulbaran, Lotzkar and to a lesser extent Soto) struggled.

I hate to sound like a downer but I'm just a little disappointed.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by nmculbreth

I don't want to diminish their collective accomplishments but the list of players being mentioned as MVP candidates is a little underwhelming. When you look at the players being mentioned you see a bunch of marginal prospects (Wood, Heisey, Francisco, Ondrusek) and non-prospects (Lehr, Barker). Even after having great seasons, none of the above are locks to be considered top 100 prospects and I'd be surprised if any of them were to crack the top 50.

Outside of Alonso and Leake, there isn't a whole lot of top end talent in the system and it seems like a lot of the young, high ceiling players (Sulbaran, Lotzkar and to a lesser extent Soto) struggled.

I hate to sound like a downer but I'm just a little disappointed.

Todd Frazier, Yonder Alonso, Mike Leake Chris Heisey and Travis Wood will all get consideration for all Top 100 lists, with the first three guys making every single one of them. As far as high ceilings go, I will submit Yorman Rodriguez and Billy Hamilton. Yorman you probably know about, but Billy Hamilton was talked about as the best athlete in the entire 2009 draft. Yeah, he is raw, but the kid has an incredibly high ceiling. I think perhaps you have expectations a bit too high based on your comments.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by nmculbreth

I don't want to diminish their collective accomplishments but the list of players being mentioned as MVP candidates is a little underwhelming. When you look at the players being mentioned you see a bunch of marginal prospects (Wood, Heisey, Francisco, Ondrusek) and non-prospects (Lehr, Barker). Even after having great seasons, none of the above are locks to be considered top 100 prospects and I'd be surprised if any of them were to crack the top 50.

Outside of Alonso and Leake, there isn't a whole lot of top end talent in the system and it seems like a lot of the young, high ceiling players (Sulbaran, Lotzkar and to a lesser extent Soto) struggled.

I hate to sound like a downer but I'm just a little disappointed.

I'm kind of on that page too. The best prospect missed most of the year with a wrist injury and was set back, number two hasn't thrown a pitch in a game for the organization yet and number 3 is 17 years old. The best pitching prospect was traded away and 3 other potential impact pitchers (Thompson, Lotzkar and Buck) all are now huge question marks with injuries. The rest, even guys like Frazier, Francisco and Wood, are likely role players at best in the majors. I think the organization took a big hit in 2009.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by mth123

I'm kind of on that page too. The best prospect missed most of the year with a wrist injury and was set back, number two hasn't thrown a pitch in a game for the organization yet and number 3 is 17 years old. The best pitching prospect was traded away and 3 other potential impact pitchers (Thompson, Lotzkar and Buck) all are now huge question marks with injuries. The rest, even guys like Frazier, Francisco and Wood, are likely role players at best in the majors. I think the organization took a big hit in 2009.

So an organization that finally graduated a potential TOR arm in Homer Bailey, two seemingly legit starting centerfield prospects in Stubbs and Dickerson, a catcher, and two bullpen arms in Herrera and Fisher, took a major hit? That alone is over 20% of your major league roster graduated to the big leagues in one year. Two arms were leveraged for a starting position player.

If that isn't the definition of success of your farm system I don't know what is.

Look at what the Reds have added the last two years from within.

Votto
Bruce
Janish
Cueto
Bailey
Stubbs
Dickerson
Hanigan
Herrera
Fisher

40 % of the 25 man roster developed from within, I include Herrera, because he was in the organization for over a year before he "graduated". Rosales and Tatum don't count because they aren't there yet.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

So an organization that finally graduated a potential TOR arm in Homer Bailey, two seemingly legit starting centerfield prospects in Stubbs and Dickerson, a catcher, and two bullpen arms in Herrera and Fisher, took a major hit? That alone is over 20% of your major league roster graduated to the big leagues in one year. Two arms were leveraged for a starting position player.

If that isn't the definition of success of your farm system I don't know what is.

Look at what the Reds have added the last two years from within.

Votto
Bruce
Janish
Cueto
Bailey
Stubbs
Dickerson
Hanigan
Herrera
Fisher

40 % of the 25 man roster developed from within, I include Herrera, because he was in the organization for over a year before he "graduated". Rosales and Tatum don't count because they aren't there yet.

Yep. We've known for a while that the impact guys were Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Bailey. The rest are role players. Four potential impact pitchers were removed. One was traded and 3 were injured. The only impact position player should probably have been a realistic option for 2010, but his injury set him back for a year or so. The top position guys are mostly showing that they can't handle the positions where their bats make them interesting. Stubbs had a nice debut, but his track record screams role player.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by mth123

I'm kind of on that page too. The best prospect missed most of the year with a wrist injury and was set back, number two hasn't thrown a pitch in a game for the organization yet and number 3 is 17 years old. The best pitching prospect was traded away and 3 other potential impact pitchers (Thompson, Lotzkar and Buck) all are now huge question marks with injuries. The rest, even guys like Frazier, Francisco and Wood, are likely role players at best in the majors. I think the organization took a big hit in 2009.

I think you could be selling Wood short. I don't think he's ace material, but he showed this year he may be more than a "role player." Same for Frazier.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

I think you could be selling Wood short. I don't think he's ace material, but he showed this year he may be more than a "role player." Same for Frazier.

Wood maybe. 5-11, 166 works against him IMO. I still think Frazier will be a valuable super sub. As an every day LF, I think he'd swing a bat that most fans and team would want to upgrade. I still have my doubts about him at 2B on a daily basis. Maybe he could play 3B, but I'd like to see him do it.

[11larkin11]

Guys that were drafted in the first two rounds HAVE the talent (Wood, Frazier). Guys that put the stats up to back it (Wood, Frazier) are more than super sub/BOR starter.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by mth123

Wood maybe. 5-11, 166 works against him IMO. I still think Frazier will be a valuable super sub. As an every day LF, I think he'd swing a bat that most fans and team would want to upgrade. I still have my doubts about him at 2B on a daily basis. Maybe he could play 3B, but I'd like to see him do it.

Wood does need to add some weight, but lots of shorter pitchers have been proving as of late that height isn't as important as it once was.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by 11larkin11

Guys that were drafted in the first two rounds HAVE the talent (Wood, Frazier). Guys that put the stats up to back it (Wood, Frazier) are more than super sub/BOR starter.

I would argue that Frazier doesn't really have the stats for the spot on the field that his glove will support. Classic tweener who will be a multi-position bench player who gets 400 ABs on a good team. I'm sure he could start on a lot of lower echelon teams. If he starts for the Reds it will be a spot that we always want to upgrade. There is nothing wrong with a long career as a valuable super sub. Mark DeRosa is a valuable guy.

Wood had a sensational 2009 and it put him back on the radar, but he also had some bad years. His stats that "back it up" are still questionable IMO.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by mth123

I would argue that Frazier doesn't really have the stats for the spot on the field that his glove will support. Classic tweener who will be a multi-position bench player who gets 400 ABs on a good team. I'm sure he could start on a lot of lower echelon teams. If he starts for the Reds it will be a spot that we always want to upgrade. There is nothing wrong with a long career as a valuable super sub. Mark DeRosa is a valuable guy.

Wood had a sensational 2009 and it put him back on the radar, but he also had some bad years. His stats that "back it up" are still questionable IMO.

I just think your idea of "stats" is what I'd disagree with, (translation HR's). Besides the fact he doesn't look to be an annual 30+ bombs a year guy I see no issues with his offensive production.

Patient ? Check
Contact ? Check
XBH's ? Check
Overall run production ? Check

Could he put up a .280/.340/.470 career line or better and play a good 3B, I just don't see why he couldn't and those are Mike Lowell's career numbers with only 2 seasons with more than 24 HR's with his average being closer to 20 a season. As a matter of fact I believe that is exactly what his major league line will look like, his minor league career numbers show a .296/.367/.491 hitter and with improvement and a .02 drop accross the board he's right there.

Lowell Career minor league #'s .294/.359/.470 (ages 21-25)
DeRosas Career minor league #'s .274/.346/.374 (ages 21-26)
Frazier Career minor league #'s .296/.367/.491 (ages 21-23)

I just think Frazier is far more Mike lowell and far less Mark DeRosa and there is no reason to believe he cannot play 3rd base as it's already been stated that the organization feels comfortable with the fact that he can play there. In short he's no 4th place hitter but in a good offense he can be a great 6th place hitter and an adequate 5th spot guy.