First AFL Box score

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

Throw those numbers up against his RHP split.

Its not going to change the plate approach against lefties which he has shown to be quite good. The guy had a line vs lefties that other college hitters wished they could have had overall. In 2007, Alonso was actually better against lefties. In 2008 he was better vs righties. The fact that Alonso was an absolute monster against righties in college doesn't change that he beat up lefties extremely well also.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by TRF

A metal bat is a great compensator.

The metal bat doesn't change the plate approach.

[OnBaseMachine]

Arizona report
Posted by jfay October 22nd, 2009, 12:13 pm

Chris Heisey is crushing the ball in the Arizona Fall League. He’s leads the league OPS (1.732). He’s hitting .571/.625/1.107 in 28 at-bats.

“He’s been doing that since April,” player development director Terry Reynolds said. “He’s excited to be playing out there. He’s always had the tools. He’s certainly opened some eyes — not only in our organization but around baseball.”

You’ve got to think Heisey is a candidate to play left field for the Reds next season.

Here’s a look at some of other Reds players in AFL:

–Top pick Mike Leake: He’s 0-1 with a 3.00 ERA after two outings. “I saw his first outing,” Reynolds said. “It was a typical of a first pro outing. He was little nervous. His last outing was more of what we’ll see.”

Leake gave up four hits and a walk in tow innings the first time out. The second time out, he gave up three hits and a walk over two innings.

–Yonder Alonso: He’s hitting .190 but he has two home runs and eight RBI in 21 at-bats. “I think some of it is rust,” Reynolds said. “He missed a lot of time with hamate (break). I think when the league is finished, he’ll have put up good numbers.”

--Brad Boxberger, this year’s second pick: He’s 0-1 with 9.00 ERA in two outings. The Reds plan to use Boxberger as a starter, although he’ll be looked at as a reliever as well. “We may do with him what we did with Zach Stewart,” Reynolds said.

--Logan Ondrusek: He’s gotten hit hard. He’s allowed eight runs on 13 hits in the 3 2/3 innings. This from a guy who had a 1.74 ERA in 21 games with Louisville. “I think he gave up three runs over the last four weeks of the season,” Reynolds said. “He got the ball up in his first two outings and got whacked pretty good. It’s very good competition out here. He was better in his last outing.”

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/

[RED VAN HOT]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

I personally don't think this means the Reds are actively looking to trade Votto, but rather, because they're still somewhat concerned about some of these issues, they'd listen if the right trade came along.

In general, I think small market teams need to get most of the affordable years out of their good players. A trade would need to bring back another team's top prospect and a serviceable ML player that could upgrade a weak position. Personally, for even that to happen, I would have to be convinced that Alonso could be among the elite power hitting first basemen in the league. To me, the jury is still out on that one.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Doug has made other posts that insinuate he believes it might not be about what the Reds think of his ability, but rather or not they're concerned about the other issues.

I personally don't think this means the Reds are actively looking to trade Votto, but rather, because they're still somewhat concerned about some of these issues, they'd listen if the right trade came along.

Paging Frank Robinson....

I don't doubt what Doug stated whatsoever. However what an asinine thing to even contemplate, trading away a guy like Votto now...or ever for that matter. It's damn near akin to trading away Jeter, Varitek or someone else of that ilk at the same time in their careers. So he has had a bout with depression, that is an issue that can be improved/fixed in his free time away from the game. If it's ongoing and he needs to miss another month next year maybe then you start to consider it but short of that I don't think it's fair for the team/FO to label him him anything but a cornerstone of your franchise and your 1st baseman.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Paging Frank Robinson....

I don't doubt what Doug stated whatsoever. However what an asinine thing to even contemplate, trading away a guy like Votto now...or ever for that matter. It's damn near akin to trading away Jeter, Varitek or someone else of that ilk at the same time in their careers. So he has had a bout with depression, that is an issue that can be improved/fixed in his free time away from the game. If it's ongoing and he needs to miss another month next year maybe then you start to consider it but short of that I don't think it's fair for the team/FO to label him him anything but a cornerstone of your franchise and your 1st baseman.

It may seem unfair to you, but the Reds are the ones who are writing him big checks and are going to keep writing him even bigger ones. BTW, it wasn't just once this season. He missed time with it once, but he also noted in September that most of August he was dealing with it as well.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

It may seem unfair to you, but the Reds are the ones who are writing him big checks and are going to keep writing him even bigger ones. BTW, it wasn't just once this season. He missed time with it once, but he also noted in September that most of August he was dealing with it as well.

Fair or not trading him is something we'll likely regret.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Fair or not trading him is something we'll likely regret.

I will wait to at least see what the return is before that. A good example could be that we trade Votto for say Stephen Drew and a few solid prospects when Alonso is ready in June/July. Or a trade similar to that. Something that helps fill a spot on the team we need to be filled.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I will wait to at least see what the return is before that. A good example could be that we trade Votto for say Stephen Drew and a few solid prospects when Alonso is ready in June/July. Or a trade similar to that. Something that helps fill a spot on the team we need to be filled.

I'd still trade Alonso and keep Votto. Alonso for Asdrubal Cabrera sounds like a deal I could get behind. If they could expand that deal to include Shin Soo Choo for LF as well they would fill 2 (maybe even 3) expansive holes cheaply and make this team a legit contender. The tribe is re-building anyway and need top end talent at the corner IF positions which we have some of.

I don't know exactly what would work but how about...

Reds get Cabrera, Choo & Jamey Carroll

Tribe gets Alonso, Wood, Francisco, Watson and Cozart

Really improves our 25 man and cleans up some spots for the 40 man in the mean time.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

I'd still trade Alonso and keep Votto. Alonso for Asdrubal Cabrera sounds like a deal I could get behind. If they could expand that deal to include Shin Soo Choo for LF as well they would fill 2 (maybe even 3) expansive holes cheaply and make this team a legit contender. The tribe is re-building anyway and need top end talent at the corner IF positions which we have some of.

I don't know exactly what would work but how about...

Reds get Cabrera, Choo & Jamey Carroll

Tribe gets Alonso, Wood, Francisco, Watson and Cozart

Really improves our 25 man and cleans up some spots for the 40 man in the mean time.

So you would rather trade Alonso, Wood, Francisco, Cozart and something else than Joey Votto by himself?

[mth123]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I will wait to at least see what the return is before that. A good example could be that we trade Votto for say Stephen Drew and a few solid prospects when Alonso is ready in June/July. Or a trade similar to that. Something that helps fill a spot on the team we need to be filled.

I've been wondering a lot lately if a Votto for Drew and Connor Jackson deal would be fair. The thing I don't like about it is that Votto could be locked up and become a franchise cornerstone. Drew and Boras are sure to leave in three years and be real expensive until then. I can't see AZ throwing in a bunch of prospects.

[lollipopcurve]

I don't think this rumor just started up for no reason. Its not a typical fan rumor, as Votto is young and cheap and quite good, so fans don't see a reason to trade him. There is something behind where this started. Whether its 100% the reason I was told, I don't know.... but I fully believe there is some legitimate reasons behind this rumor to be at least partially true.

That the Reds may have some concern about Votto's depression or inner ear issues is natural. But the depression has not been an issue he's had to deal with outside of 2009, and he finished very strong. To make the leap that they are planning to trade him is a stretch, and likely amounts to some guy just talking. There is no ready replacement for Votto, he performed at an elite level, and he is an unquestioned fan favorite (meaning a trade further alienates the fan base, something they no doubt would be aware of). It really makes zero sense at this time. There's no reason to believe the guy who spoke about it had any truly privileged information. (It's also highly unlikely Jocketty and his inside circle had finalized any decisions, privately or semi-so, about who they would look to peddle this offseason.)

Just some guy talking...

[HokieRed]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

That the Reds may have some concern about Votto's depression or inner ear issues is natural. But the depression has not been an issue he's had to deal with outside of 2009, and he finished very strong. To make the leap that they are planning to trade him is a stretch, and likely amounts to some guy just talking. There is no ready replacement for Votto, he performed at an elite level, and he is an unquestioned fan favorite (meaning a trade further alienates the fan base, something they no doubt would be aware of). It really makes zero sense at this time. There's no reason to believe the guy who spoke about it had any truly privileged information. (It's also highly unlikely Jocketty and his inside circle had finalized any decisions, privately or semi-so, about who they would look to peddle this offseason.)

Just some guy talking...

Superb post.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

That the Reds may have some concern about Votto's depression or inner ear issues is natural. But the depression has not been an issue he's had to deal with outside of 2009, and he finished very strong. To make the leap that they are planning to trade him is a stretch, and likely amounts to some guy just talking. There is no ready replacement for Votto, he performed at an elite level, and he is an unquestioned fan favorite (meaning a trade further alienates the fan base, something they no doubt would be aware of). It really makes zero sense at this time. There's no reason to believe the guy who spoke about it had any truly privileged information. (It's also highly unlikely Jocketty and his inside circle had finalized any decisions, privately or semi-so, about who they would look to peddle this offseason.)

Just some guy talking...

Well the rumor included the statement 'when Alonso is ready', so the fact that he isn't now doesn't change anything about what the scout said.

[lollipopcurve]

Well the rumor included the statement 'when Alonso is ready', so the fact that he isn't now doesn't change anything about what the scout said.

Except that the "plan" is now the hibernating kind. Who can take that kind of rumor seriously?

Now, it's certainly possible the team will one day trade Votto and replace him with Alonso. What I find completely implausible is that some guy talking at a ballgame in 2009 can know what the team has designs on doing a season down the road, as if the team itself knows.